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Well I started programming in Reason over 3 years ago mainly because I liked how the synths and stuff emulated hardware synths with all the buttons etc . I was hoping to get some hardware and be able to get a feel from it by using the virtual gear in reason.

Ok I moved to ableton and have kind of been stuck there ever since. I'm a student so can't afford some of the nice hardware synths which start at 500 quid, I can't even find a job djing or get any of my tracks sold *sigh*. So I got my hands on an old Akai sampler and had about a weeks fun with it and not touched it much since . Well I keep seeing some of the top producers with nice rack mounted eq, compressers etc and a few friends have said how good synths like access virus are. I like how you can fine tune things using the knobs etc. So is it worth saving up for these hardware devices when you can just get a vst which is twice as powerful and all fits onto my laptop? Is there really a benefit to hardware anyone can think of?

Thanks

hardware generally sounds better. most of the time. tends to have more weight or 'warmth'. but its not some magic solution that will make you amazing

one option worth thinking about is running soft synths (or your whole mix) out of the box through a nice bit of kit, like a valve eq, an fx pedal, or a cheap desk. will definately give them more character. is certainly cheaper than shelling out on a bunch of hardware synths (athough generally they are pretty fucking cool )


nice trick with that akai sampler you have - run a stereo signal of your tune out from your soundcard (or even just individual parts), into the akai, hit record and pause at the same time (this should allow the audio to go 'through'), then route the output from the akai back to the computer and record. the ad/da conversion should grimey things up a little

lightshapers wrote:hardware generally sounds better. most of the time. tends to have more weight or 'warmth'. but its not some magic solution that will make you amazing

one option worth thinking about is running soft synths (or your whole mix) out of the box through a nice bit of kit, like a valve eq, an fx pedal, or a cheap desk. will definately give them more character. is certainly heaper than shelling out on a bunch of hardware synths (athough generally they are pretty fucking cool )

Oh one other thing, since I've not been producing since the 90s. Sorry for the generalisation . I need to figure how to plug all the synths and eqs into my pc too. I'd need some thing like a focusrite saffire to get the synth into ableton and record or valve eqs right?. Guess its best to hunt down another producer who uses hardware and ask them to try it for a bit.

using real knobs is kind of fun, but tbqf it ain't all that. a lot of times u gotta shit fucking shift three times and bash all kinda of ass backwards buttons just to lengthen your filter envelope attack or something. Depends on the kit you're using. but there is something to be said for the ease of a mouse/computer GUI. that being said, i A/B'd a reese i made in Maelstrom with a reese that came off a doepfer and the fucking Maelstrom's sample sounded like a piece of plastic, very thin and lacked character.

so there are a few sides to this old chat.. the overarching conclusion is to use what you've got. if you want the sound of outboard but haven't got the means for an analog or VA synth, bash that signal through your akai as explained above... or whatever else you've got. stomp boxes, cassette decks, preamps.. its all worth a shot and its fun seeing what kind of dirt you can bring to a sound.

Also as far as the ins and outs are concerned, you just need a i/o converter with inputs and outputs. focusrite will do you just fine

Toxic_Acidity wrote:
Oh one other thing, since I've not been producing since the 90s. Sorry for the generalisation . I need to figure how to plug all the synths and eqs into my pc too. I'd need some thing like a focusrite saffire to get the synth into ableton and record or valve eqs right?. Guess its best to hunt down another producer who uses hardware and ask them to try it for a bit.

normally yes you would need an interface/soundcard (theres also usb/fireware mixing desks which do the same same thing). depends how much hardware you have/plan on getting and how you intended to route it. if youre getting loads of shit youd need to start looking into patch bays and things. you could of course use a bog standard sound card awith asio4all but it will sound shit, pretty much defeating the whole point of it.

if its just a valve eq for instance, you could get away with running out from the interface, through it and then back in again. muting the outputs within the software on the channel you are recording on (to stop it feedbacking).

if its just a hardware synth you could run it directy into a soundcard

theres a lot of options

The microkorg is a really good hardware solution for not a lot of money.

New one was (2 years ago) $500 CAD and I picked up a used one for half that.

Its a small synth and the interface needs getting used to but it packs a massive punch in the bass dept.

Hardware synthesis implies an external based mixing console which adds another element to the "mix" if you can pardon the pun.

It's a wide open debate and I think it comes down to producer skills rather than hard and fast "A" is better "B" is worse.

cheers

Proper analogue synths are definitely better, warmer, dirtier (in a good way). Virtual Analogue hardware synths are good for the ability to get away from the computer, it can be very inspiring. As for the sound, there are plugins around now that are equal to virtual analogue hardware in terms of sound, and a lot of them surpass the abilities. Being able to open 10 of them at once is just one huge bonus. When I first used Sylenth, I was amazed at how "real" it sounded. That was a big turning point for me. Albino is also very close to my Viruses in terms of sound and ability. The mod matrix definitely helps make it comparable.

You can get yourself a MIDI controller or 2 and have the same experience tweaking sounds with your hands. ROMpler type software like the Spectrasonics stuff (Omnisphere/Trilogy) is great and are made with full analogue samples from gear I could never afford (or even find!), and while it's not exactly the same thing, it's pretty damn close and isn't the price of a car. There's lots of software like that now, Nexus is another popular one.

In 2011 I'd say the biggest advantage of hardware these days is it lets you get away from computers which I find extremely inspiring.

Hardware is surely heavier, but nothing you can't achieve in the box, it just takes a little bit more work, take wormcode's advice and get a midi controller to give that better feel of when you are tweaking your sounds.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that having tonnes of analogue gear will suddenly take you to the 'next level'. It won't.
You'll probably find these racks of hardware were building up after the artist's tracks were getting lots of attention and it seemed a valuable investment to add that little bit more to the sound. In short I'd say dump the cash on monitors, room treatment and audio interfaces first. Then when you're shifting tracks consider analogue.

Hardware is merely for show in my opinion, it looks good and sounds it good to say you have one. My favourite producers across the genres do work with VSTs, and the only advantage of hardware I've heard is it sounds "deeper", "warmer", and "softer". Haha, these just sound like buzz words rather than actual benefits.

GothamHero wrote:Hardware is merely for show in my opinion, it looks good and sounds it good to say you have one. My favourite producers across the genres do work with VSTs, and the only advantage of hardware I've heard is it sounds "deeper", "warmer", and "softer". Haha, these just sound like buzz words rather than actual benefits.

Well they do add harmonic distortion such as the tubes in amps but you can easily emulate that with saturation plugins and subtle tube distortion.

ToxicBass wrote:Don't fall into the trap of thinking that having tonnes of analogue gear will suddenly take you to the 'next level'. It won't.
You'll probably find these racks of hardware were building up after the artist's tracks were getting lots of attention and it seemed a valuable investment to add that little bit more to the sound. In short I'd say dump the cash on monitors, room treatment and audio interfaces first. Then when you're shifting tracks consider analogue.

^this... i gotta think that the modular synth manufacturers are popping open a bottle of champagne every time deadmau5 tweets another pic of his modular synth rack... its producers like him that are the reason why so many aspiring producers are interested in selling their car/kidney/girlfriend just to pick up some gear in the hopes that they will be able to attain that 'magic' sound... The truth of the matter is that producers that use hardware synths make great sounding music because they are great producers... if they had to work only in Csound they would still be making amazing music..

GothamHero wrote:Hardware is merely for show in my opinion, it looks good and sounds it good to say you have one. My favourite producers across the genres do work with VSTs, and the only advantage of hardware I've heard is it sounds "deeper", "warmer", and "softer". Haha, these just sound like buzz words rather than actual benefits.

ur favourite itb artists use hardware..

it took me a while to get it... but really, they do, or someone does it for them.

I made a blind test here on dsfp, it was a simple detuned square wave bass sound, between a virus b, massive, arturia's minimoog, and maybe one other, I forget. Every midlevel and above producer picked the virus as the best just in terms of raw sound. So maybe hardware va does still sound better than the best va vst's?

I've got a mix of both.

Maschine is the best piece of hard and software I've ever bought, by a mile, love that thing really badly.

Bottom line in response to your question, at your level, don't even be thinking about hardware. Just try to 1) make good songs 2) make good sounding songs (ie songs that sound the way you want). If you can do both of those, it might be worth your time to consider mixing some hardware in. Hardware is far more difficult to work with, despite some of its sonic/workflow advantages.

Oh, one more thing, novation midi controllers with automap are a great way to get quick tactile feel for your vsti's. All premapped and ready to Go Dog Go!

Digital is digital. It's all ones and zeros whether it is a VST or some high-priced rack piece. Lower latency is of course a plus for hardware.

Heartless wrote:Digital is digital. It's all ones and zeros whether it is a VST or some high-priced rack piece. Lower latency is of course a plus for hardware.

True to a point I think, but good converters definitely come into play though, and anything the outboard gear might be going through like an amp or desk of course.

wormcode wrote:

Heartless wrote:Digital is digital. It's all ones and zeros whether it is a VST or some high-priced rack piece. Lower latency is of course a plus for hardware.

True to a point I think, but good converters definitely come into play though, and anything the outboard gear might be going through like an amp or desk of course.

Yeah, but if you're buying a hardware synth for the converters then why not just get better converters for your PC - they aren't gonna stick £500 converters in a £600 synth...

FWIW, pretty much all the amazing classic tunes that dubstep was built on - Skream, Benga, DMZ, Loefah etc etc - were produced with software. It always seems a bit mental when people on here say "well, yeah, I mean, software was good enough for Request Line, Anti War Dub, The Judgement and so on but it just doesn't quite cut it for me...

I don't think anyone said that, there are just pros and cons. The biggest pro for me is getting away from computers, not the sound. There's plenty of great software saturators and amps these days that can be used to fatten and warm up sounds, SPL Twintube is one of the best I've used.

I'm curious how many people who posted so far actually spent some time with hardware because the whole point of the hardware vs software debate has been beautifully eluded.

With all due respect noways, the blind test you made is irrelevant, you're not going to make a tune out of a mere square wave, are you? You're going to use the synth features and that's what you should be looking at when comparing 2 synths, not the fact that they're hardware or software: the features! Plus, take the test again without actually using the Virus waveform, ask people to find it, how many do you think will guess it's not there? How relevant is that? For the record I have and like both the Virus and Massive and use them for different purposes just like any other 2 synths.

Another (major) thing to consider is that hardware is less convenient to work with than software because a) it has limited polyphony/timbrality b) you can't use your vst effects collection with it unless you bounce your track down to digital. For me, that's the real deal breaker but each to their own, some people don't care.
The real fun with hardware is the experience of having the actual piece of kit in front of you and playing with it and that, again, is not a case of "better or not": it's just different.

So hardware sure has its place in some people's studios, the only question is: are you one of them? And the only way to find out is to buy some used hardware that you'd be able to sell without losing a quid in the process. I recommend anyone who can afford to try it.