Dubstepforum.com

What is everyones opinion on using more expensive external soft synths vs lets say logics es2 and the other included synths. I know i should probably learn the built in synths first before dropping cash on other soft synths. Is this usually the general consensus? Do any big producers just use their DAW's synths that are included already? sorry if this sounds confusing. Thx in advance.

whatever you can get to sound good is worth using, in my opinion. if you're just starting out, i think it's better to get comfortable with the principles of synthesis using the stuff that comes with your daw before spending money on anything else, although it all comes down to preference, i suppose. either way, it's worth learning some of the synths your daw comes with because you might be surprised by them. the es2 is a solid example because it's a great, versatile synth. i've used it for filthy basses, light pads, bell sounds, and all sorts of other stuff, and it's a great tool for learning because subtractive synths (like the es2) are really popular. the es1 is also nice and sculpture is a rad, totally different sounding kind of synth that's a lot of fun to use. i can't speak for other daws because i don't have any hands-on experience with them, but i'm sure it's pretty much the same across the board.

i guess the point is that it can be really tempting to hear about other soft synths and think that you should jump into them immediately, but it isn't a necessity to spend the dough when you're starting out. if you spend a little time learning some of the synths that come with your daw, you'll probably find ways to make some pretty killer sounds with them and you'll learn a lot of the stuff that will make the learning curves for other synths more manageable. plus, when you do decide to invest in other shit, you'll be able to complement the new stuff with what you've already got and you'll have a much bigger palette to work with.

Most DAWs come with the tools you need to make the music you want. You just need to learn what each thing does. The stock distortion that comes with FL is just as good as Camel Crusher, same goes for everything else. I can make whatever sound I want just by using FL's stock synths, although I still use Sylenth which didn't come with FL because it makes very frequency rich sounds and it's really good.

Just learn the basics before you get anything else. Trust me. Oh, and read manuals.

really appreciate the responses. makes sense to me.

oh and currently going through logics es2 manual as i type this haha

I spent about 4 years in Reason fucking with the subtractor and the malstrom before i moved on to Cubase and was able to even think about using external VSTs (recently found reaper and dam straight i'm never turning back! epic daw, hands down). As other people have already said, use what you have to learn the basic principles of different kinds of synthesis before you dosh out on the more complicated stuff.

The higher complexity of expensive VSTs raise the bar of possibility only to those learned enough to have been finding limitations in what they can do with sound on the native VST's in a daw. Until you're being limited by the lack of complexity, there's no need to patch that currently non existent gap in your creative endeavours.

Whats cool about learning logics built in tools is that they're 64bit compatible... which isnt the case for most softsynths out there.

otherwise they're just tools if u ask me...

Additive synthesis theory is capable of producing any sound you've ever heard with no more than 3 oscs. Why 3 is the standard in most synths you download.

Learn the science, then worry about the aesthetics of the knobs.

Logic's ES2 and EFM1 synths are very underrated, i use them in all of my tracks and barely use any third party synths

sounds good. thanks again for the additional responses.

Teknicyde wrote:Additive synthesis theory is capable of producing any sound you've ever heard with no more than 3 oscs. Why 3 is the standard in most synths you download.

Learn the science, then worry about the aesthetics of the knobs.

Yeah, I heard about that. Amazing isn't it? Anyway, built-in synths will do you just fine in most (if not all) cases...I work in Sytrus from Fruity Loops and don't see myself ever switching to massive or FM8 or whatever synth.

+1 to everything said here. FL's 3xOSC is a little beast. A great synth to learn the basics on...so easy to use I don't even bother saving patches on it...just load it up, get some basic wave forms going...visual envelope...'nuff said.

fragments wrote:+1 to everything said here. FL's 3xOSC is a little beast. A great synth to learn the basics on...so easy to use I don't even bother saving patches on it...just load it up, get some basic wave forms going...visual envelope...'nuff said.

3 osc is like an osc section. for more complex modulation you need to use fruity`s fx. then you get to realize that the whole daw is just basically one giant synth. massive made me think that way.

Eridu wrote:

fragments wrote:+1 to everything said here. FL's 3xOSC is a little beast. A great synth to learn the basics on...so easy to use I don't even bother saving patches on it...just load it up, get some basic wave forms going...visual envelope...'nuff said.

3 osc is like an osc section. for more complex modulation you need to use fruity`s fx. then you get to realize that the whole daw is just basically one giant synth. massive made me think that way.

Well sure. Certainly true. And in a way yes, your DAW is kind of like a giant synth in a sense. Less is more w/ FXs anyway, at least IMO. Seems like folks are all about giant FX's chains w/ no reason behind any of it these days. Gotta make a good sounding basic patch first. Polishing a turd and all...

ChadDub wrote:The stock distortion that comes with FL is just as good as Camel Crusher, same goes for everything else.

Depends what you mean by "as good" they both have there own sound, and I would pick the one right for what I wanted to do.

Teknicyde wrote:Additive synthesis theory is capable of producing any sound you've ever heard with no more than 3 oscs. Why 3 is the standard in most synths you download.

Source? I have only ever heard that on here...

OP: when you start seeing gaping holes in your arsenal of plug-ins, that is when your need something new imo, and I ain't talking lust.

3za wrote:

Teknicyde wrote:Additive synthesis theory is capable of producing any sound you've ever heard with no more than 3 oscs. Why 3 is the standard in most synths you download.

Source? I have only ever heard that on here...

OP: when you start seeing gaping holes in your arsenal of plug-ins, that is when your need something new imo, and I ain't talking lust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_synthesis

If you scroll down to the bit of crazy maths in the theory section, the way I had it broken down to me, was that three variables with the right phase and frequency can produce any waveform when added together...

When i say any sound though, Im really saying any 'single wavecycle'... making them evolve, that a whole different business.

Teknicyde wrote:

3za wrote:

Teknicyde wrote:Additive synthesis theory is capable of producing any sound you've ever heard with no more than 3 oscs. Why 3 is the standard in most synths you download.

Source? I have only ever heard that on here...

OP: when you start seeing gaping holes in your arsenal of plug-ins, that is when your need something new imo, and I ain't talking lust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_synthesis

If you scroll down to the bit of crazy maths in the theory section, the way I had it broken down to me, was that three variables with the right phase and frequency can produce any waveform when added together...

When i say any sound though, Im really saying any 'single wavecycle'... making them evolve, that a whole different business.

I ain't really got a clue what they are getting at, but I don't think they mean that...

Every DAW on the market comes with some incredibly built-in soft synths. Learn them inside and out and dont' worry about anything else until you've literally exhausted all your options (then talk to othes about ideas). lol

amphibian wrote:Every DAW on the market comes with some incredibly built-in soft synths. Learn them inside and out and dont' worry about anything else until you've literally exhausted all your options (then talk to othes about ideas). lol

Almost every DAW.
Not all of them though.
But for every built in synth there's an equally good free synth.

In specific, what do ppl have to say about Ableton's Operator? I've been messing with it some, but I would like to know what ppl think about it quality/versatility wise.

i like having a variety of different softsynths at disposal... i mean, if i had money to spend, i'd probably have a room full of hardware synths like Chromeo or something. the reality though is that i have a DAW full of free softsynths.

either way, the DAW's built-in synth would never be enough for a gearslut like me.