Dubstepforum.com

I've had this problem for a few years now(new to dubstep but was doing hip hop and other stuff before)

I've got hundreds of 4-8 bar loops I created from scratch...none of them are arranged or go anywhere. I think I have musical ADD...I spend a few hours on one idea and then jump to the next. In my mind I always figured I'd sort through and arrange the best ones but I think I am kidding myself.

I use FL Studio so it would be nice if someone who is familiar with the pattern system could give me some advice.

Should I be copying patterns and changing them up or should I be bouncing my loops to a wav file and them manipulating them that way?

I don't like bouncing things to wav because as a make a beat I want complete control over every single element...but processing power just isn't allowing that to happen for me.

Drums always seem to come first and then bass which I am aware is a pretty common thing...but I am thinking maybe I should start with an intro and work on my song from beginning to end so that I can force myself to finish a track.

This is really getting me down because I've been working on an album for years and I have nothing to show for it....I want to make sure that I have something quality done before I let it be heard by everyone.....ARRANGEMENT is what is keeping me from doing this...HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im exactly the same man
thats why i switched to Ableton

The problem i found with FL Studio is i just ended up making loops

Although i do love FL for Edison and bouncing ideas out quickly into Ableton

work on several songs at once. Start with an 8 bar loop, copy it and work on it the next day, after working on something else, then theres your 2nd 8 bars, then develop that and so on

or
cool idea
make 7 different copys of an 8 bar idea, work on one each day of the week doing it differently each time and then stick them all next to each other

it wont make a song structure but yknow itll keep you occupied

sometimes i'll start with just a beat and bass like you said, and get those matched up nicely. sometimes when you start making your tune from the drop, it allows you to tailor your intro to accuentuate the drop (if that makes sense).

as for the wav vs. copy/paste... i'm most comfortable doing the copy paste method and changing it up that way, when i'm bouncing things out my concentration really seems to wander... i also like to have control over each element, particularly being able to take the main drum pattern used in the track and throwing different hits off to the left or right (on the grid) each time it plays through.

as far as actual arrangement goes, i'm not very advanced, but a lot of times i like to write down a general idea for how i want a song to flow before i actually jump in. a lot of times once i get all my sounds going, i get a little bit cluttered as far as ideas go, so its really nice to have a general plan to start off with.

regardless, in my opinion its important to get a groove going in your drums (whether you build this from the intro or jump right in), as the drums in edm, especially dubstep, really make the track move. if you can get yourself nodding to just your drum beat playing solo, you've got something pretty solid to build a nice tune off of.

I definitely think having a plan will make a big difference for me....also organizing and naming all my patterns is something I don't put enough effort into because I like diving into the musical aspects right away but when it comes time to arrange my loops I get frustrated because what I am left with is a mess that I can't make any sense out of haha


Also wondering whether you guys split your patterns into each individual layer or do you keep your bass, drums, and pads in one pattern for each variation?

Structuring tracks is very difficult to begin with. I always making sure my 8 or 16 bar loop is solid before I try make a track out of it. Can you upload one of your best 8 bar loops to get an idea of what your working with?

Listen to other tracks and try break them down, old techno can be good for this because due to the limitations of the amount of equipment or tracks the producer had available means that a lot of those songs only consist of a few different elements, arranged to make a full track without it becoming sterile.

Heres a basic break down of one of my tracks called: New Dawn:
Soundcloud

1- 16 Bars: Just Drums & Atmospherics, the drums have enough variation in them so they don't become dull. I used a old Dub trick on the snare, placing it through a wah pedal followed by a Spring reverb it gives it a metallic clang that is always changing. Also notice the snare rolls at the end of every 8 bars. Another thing I make a use a lot of in this track is transition synths, you'll hear it around the 32 second mark. This is just a pad sound with a high pass filter which is automated to lower as it gets closer to the new section, it helps blending new elements seem more natural.

16-32 Bars: Lead Synth, Sub bass, Vox sample mixed in with beat, new Guitar atmos added is introduced.

32-64 Bars: Background pad, Vox Added, new guitar atmos added.

64-81 Bars: Background pad, Vox, Guitar Atmos ALL DROPPED. This is the 16 Bars leading to the middle break down, I've cut a lot of elements out of track, thats something to remeber (particularly with dub music) you can add something new just by cutting out different elements.

81-96 Bars: Standard breaking down, white noise, bass drop, atmos. I have a new chord progression fading in from a high pass filter, this will provide the backing to the 2nd section. The new chords will give it a new feel but because they are still within the key I wrote the track in I can still use all the old elements like the lead synth and guitar atmos

96-112 Bars: Same as the first main 16-32 bars except with new backing chords, new sub bass, a slightly different guitar atmos.

112-128 Bars: Same as the last except parts of the vocal are reintroduced in a slighty different way.

128- 145 Bars: Lead synth is dropped half way through this 16 bar loop as I begin to wind everything down to make a track more mixable

145-161 Bars: last 16 bars, the backing chords pad fades out, the sub bass is cut, all the atmos is cut apart from one new simple guitar atmos added.

Done.

* Make sure you got a really nice 8 - 16 bar loop. If you don't have a solid 8 - 16 bars, you won't have a hope of getting a 5 minute track out of it

* If adding a new synth for the 2nd section makes your song sound to disjointed then try rework one of the previous sounds in a new way so your still working form the same palette as the track.

* Add and a variety of different atmospherics



Probably loads of spelling mistakes, words mixed up etc..., I'll read over after I get bitta grub

http://soundcloud.com/darigan

Thanks...great post!

Getting a great 8-16 bar loop isn't a problem for me. I like to include as many layers as possible that gel together while I work on my main loop. I guess I just need to work on fills and transitions so that I can drop and add those layers as the song progresses.

I've never tried putting a snare through a wah pedal...that sounds like a really cool idea!

I really liked your track btw

I don't use the same computer for internet as I do for producing but I will look for my usb stick and try to upload some tracks I've been working on.

My first dubstep track...stuff I am currently working on is a bit more chill and groovy than this...still would like some feedback anyways

Soundcloud

I'm really feeling that clip you have there. I love the crescendo effects on the samples you've got going in between your bass parts. Might have to cop that idea

I'm in the exact same boat with arrangement, I get an 8 or 16 bar loop going and it just goes nowhere. When I do go to push myself beyond the loop I just hate how uninteresting my progression sounds and I end up scrapping things. It's no fun to listen to yourself suck when you know you are capable of doing more. I think for me, I have to allow myself to suck at song progression so that I can improve at it and later master it.

A little too bit crushed for my taste.

http://tarekith.com/common-arrangement-issues/

http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/2011/08/ ... ing-parts/

I like to start an 8 or 16 bar loop lay down as much as possible, spread it out over the first half of the track maybe get some new instruments and have a few diffrent leads playing similar stuff on following 16 bars or whatever, make a little intro out of the sounds i got, then copy the main idea of the first half to the second but maybe switch it up little bit.

Listen to a song you like, and make notes on it's arrangement on a pad of paper as you're listening to it. So for example this Shackleton tune I had the following notes;

Vinyl crackle in background
Bongo loop
Vocal sample
Synth/deep pads
Synth/Higher bleeps
2nd vocal sample
Piano hook
Drop into synth bleep, different pattern
synth pads build
bass drop, gradual with [can't read my handwriting here]
sub kick & stuttery snare
Bongos come back
vocal samples on heavy delay
Variation in bongos
Bass drops
Piano comes back
2nd vocal sample
Bongos in and out
Piano variation
Synth bleeps
Drop, roll out, strip out


Syntax is a bit off in some of them, and haven't used the 'correct' terms for some of the elements, but the main thing is that I associate my notes with what I was hearing as the tune progressed. Then fired up FL and tried to recreate what I'd heard, using the above as a template. Didn't sound anything like the original, but it was enough of an excerise to give myself a grounding in a few new methods, plus had a pre existing structure to base things on, even if the finished product was quite far removed from the original.

Try and replicate the structure to give you an idea of what changes make on the feel of the tune. When you're happy, do it with another tune. Repeat.

Try replicating the structure of some tracks you like, I don't mean copy the track but rather start the track at the beginning see whats there and pick some elements out of your loop which are similar, the work through the track adding elements when ever new elements come in, changing patterns when patterns change or modifying the sounds when the sounds change, adding incidentals sounds/risers/filter sweeps whenever they apprear in the track you are "copying" from along with drum fills and glitches.

This isn't how you should write your music but it's a great way to learn and get into the flow of actually arranging and it will start to make you appreciate what is required to finish a good track. Making an 8 bar loop is easy, you get instant gratification from the phat sound you just created but it's just the beginning. As I've got better at making music the process has been getting longer and longer not quicker, sure I've got quick at getting the sounds I when but my attention to detail has got more and more specific.

Hope that's helpful.