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Basically I'm sick of doing the same old same old and I want to try something different and really musical, so I decided I wanted to take a crack at composing an entire film soundtrack in a DAW (atm I'm using Ableton), and I'm wary of the cheesy sound a scoring software like Sibelius can make. Obviously I have no access to a large orchestra as well.

So I'd like to have your feedback into how I could make the orchestra sound as realistic and as cohesive as possible. I have some fairly solid orchestral soundfront banks, but if there are any that really sound fantastic then I'd definitely like to know of them, and any plugins or effects that would make them warm and human-like.

There'd be an occasional synth and synth pad, but I'd mainly like to know how to make the orchestral side of things as human and as like the real thing as possible.

Also if anyone has any links to tracks where the composer has basically composed the score in a DAW I'd be immensely grateful!

I'd say it's difficult but doable! The two biggest things that come to mind are making sure you get the velocities right--not every note played by an instrument is going to be at the exact same level, nor the same vibrato etc.--and realistic reverb, at least if you're going for that concert hall type sound. Good luck, can't wait to hear the results!

Gigastudio is standard for orchestral scoring inside a DAW along with Garritan libraries which can be used with many samplers. It's in heavy use in the industry. I'd also recommend Sampletank, you can get the free version with some very nice samples included.
NI also have a very nice Orchestral & String Kontakt instrument. These are all fairly pricey though, but the quality is amazing. Look to Big Fish Audio for orchestral samples as decent prices, many multisampled instruments as well. Multisamples are pretty essential.

I've done some scoring work, and Nuendo as well as Sound Forge were invaluable for bigger projects. Nuendo is basically Cubase with some special features, so if you're familiar with that...

A good MIDI controller is also a must, including a wheel to skip timelines frame by frame, or at least a few knobs. Any good NLE video software will also accept MIDI controllers and VSTs.

Not used Ableton Live for it, though I'm sure it's possible. Can you import videos into a timeline? This is essential.

FL Studio XL allows importing of many video formats and will play them in sync. I've done quick scoring jobs in there for people's smaller projects (30 second ads etc), and it was sufficient, though for surround mixing it's not ideal without 3rd party tools.

You will find effects don't help make them sound more realistic 99% of the time, aside from reverb, in which case you'll want convolution types and good impulses. Search the forum, I posted a bunch of links for that stuff in the last month or so.
It's all about how you play/program the sounds. Do NOT process the sounds much, do NOT EQ much at all. You generally want to stay away from dynamics processing if you want them to sound live, as in no compression, or very light if any.

For a look at it from an electronic/dance perspective, take a look at Sabre's masterclass. He does an orchestral inspired tune with Garritan and has some good tips: http://www.vimeo.com/m/21570255

I would recommend Omnisphere or the East West stuff. Also, I don't really recommend Ableton for this. Cubase or Logic are probably your best choices.

wormcode wrote:Gigastudio is standard for orchestral scoring inside a DAW along with Garritan libraries which can be used with many samplers. It's in heavy use in the industry. I'd also recommend Sampletank, you can get the free version with some very nice samples included.
NI also have a very nice Orchestral & String Kontakt instrument. These are all fairly pricey though, but the quality is amazing. Look to Big Fish Audio for orchestral samples as decent prices, many multisampled instruments as well. Multisamples are pretty essential.

I've done some scoring work, and Nuendo as well as Sound Forge were invaluable for bigger projects. Nuendo is basically Cubase with some special features, so if you're familiar with that...

A good MIDI controller is also a must, including a wheel to skip timelines frame by frame, or at least a few knobs. Any good NLE video software will also accept MIDI controllers and VSTs.

Not used Ableton Live for it, though I'm sure it's possible. Can you import videos into a timeline? This is essential.

FL Studio XL allows importing of many video formats and will play them in sync. I've done quick scoring jobs in there for people's smaller projects (30 second ads etc), and it was sufficient, though for surround mixing it's not ideal without 3rd party tools.

You will find effects don't help make them sound more realistic 99% of the time, aside from reverb, in which case you'll want convolution types and good impulses. Search the forum, I posted a bunch of links for that stuff in the last month or so.
It's all about how you play/program the sounds. Do NOT process the sounds much, do NOT EQ much at all. You generally want to stay away from dynamics processing if you want them to sound live, as in no compression, or very light if any.

For a look at it from an electronic/dance perspective, take a look at Sabre's masterclass. He does an orchestral inspired tune with Garritan and has some good tips: http://www.vimeo.com/m/21570255

Whoa man that's pretty much everything I need! Thanks a lot!

It's only a matter of time before I give up on dance music and go full time into film score production seriously. No matter what I produce there is always that nagging in the back of my head that wants me to add layer upon layer of strings and orchestral instruments, good luck on your quest sir

I think Hans Zimmer uses Logic. But then again he has his own orchestra to record from. I really wanna get my hands on the some of the East West packs but being a student, just don't have a casual couple of grand lying about

One of my friends, George Strezov, makes tutorials for Audiotuts (I think it was Audiotuts), google him. He makes amazing music and shares great knowledge in the tutorials.

EDIT: Here's the link:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/author/george-strezov/

dansheep13 wrote:I think Hans Zimmer uses Logic. But then again he has his own orchestra to record from. I really wanna get my hands on the some of the East West packs but being a student, just don't have a casual couple of grand lying about

He uses pretty much all audio, but I would still recommend logic, I've tried doing music to a video on it before and its easy because it actually has a mode for film scoring where you can see the video at the same time and it makes it a whole lot easier. Also the sample libraries and exs24 that comes with logic isn't bad, but you'd still want something like kontakt or gigastudio to get everything sounding tidy.

Ableton's video support is poor. You can only import quicktime movies, and the export quality is pretty bad too. Just so you know!

Also, learning some music theory is a must, especially instrumental theory. Understanding the instrument's ranges and the keys they suit etc.

dansheep13 wrote:I think Hans Zimmer uses Logic. But then again he has his own orchestra to record from. I really wanna get my hands on the some of the East West packs but being a student, just don't have a casual couple of grand lying about

I'm not sure how Hans works, he probably varies, but usually when someone has a full orchestra to use, they will score a film inside a DAW with virtual instruments and samples. When the score is done and approved, someone transcribes the MIDI data to sheet music for each instrument and it's handed out to an orchestra and conductor. Some filmmakers skip that and just use virtual orchestras, which can sound dead on these days, but there's always old school folks who want a real orchestra budget permitting. No doubt recording a great orchestra can easily creep into the millions budget-wise

That reminds me. OP, if you can track down a DVD of Once Upon a Time in Mexico, there is a special feature documentary showing Robert Rodriguez scoring the film with Garritan/Gigastudio. He did a great job, I thought it was a full orchestra until I watched that. It's a nice insight. Maybe the video is online too.

i've got the ableton orchestral pack and kontakt 4. They sound 100% realistic to me, and without access to a GREAT studio you're never going to be able to reconstruct those sounds without sampling yourself. That would be quite tedious, but if you can't afford payware, then it might be worth your while unless there's free top notch sample libraries out there.

WTF moment of the day! I've been looking for a decent free sampler for ages and Sampletank looks perfect, best deal on a free sampler I've personally come across, gonna grab that shit asap!

Compose in Silbelius, export to MIDI, import into Ableton?

This guy does it using a piano roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ontgRtCeyvo

Hans Zimmer uses Cubase, and recently gave a glowing endorsement of Zebra. But I have no idea what his workflow is like when producing a film score...

I got installed sampletank free and the free sounds, but it doesn't seem to be able to find them. It's driving me crazy.

Do you have the essential instruments collection in Ableton? Those are surprisingly lush and realistic sounding, I used the cello in a prog house tune recently and with the reverb on it it sounds surprisingly good.

therapist wrote:I got installed sampletank free and the free sounds, but it doesn't seem to be able to find them. It's driving me crazy.

Did you click 'relist' next to the browser? Have to do that for every pack you install. Also the button 'prefs' to setup where they are installed. Obvious but when I first bought it, I couldn't see that damn tiny button.

Also on the far right are 3 tiny knobs that let you change the look of the plugin and luminosity/contrast. A lot of people never see that. Had a couple of people ask me recently 'what version of sampletank is this?? It's purple?' Haha

wormcode wrote:

therapist wrote:I got installed sampletank free and the free sounds, but it doesn't seem to be able to find them. It's driving me crazy.

Did you click 'relist' next to the browser? Have to do that for every pack you install. Also the button 'prefs' to setup where they are installed. Obvious but when I first bought it, I couldn't see that damn tiny button.

I did 'relist', it doesn't do anything. I can't see the whole file extension in the 'prefs' section, I did the self-install for the free sounds but do they have to go to a certain folder?

This sampler looks mad good, I just want to fucking play it. FAQs so far are fucking useless. Cheers anyway.