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So, basicallly what I'm asking is, do any of you have any good advice on this area? When I try to come up with a melody using a certain scale, it always end up sucking humongous balls. I really love those dark, badass kinda of melodies or whatever, but always end up with a more "happy" kind of melody that suck. I love the kind of melodies the Rottun crew come up with, especially Ajapai, Excision and Cenob1te (from what I've heard so far).

The only decent melodies I've come up with so far has been totally out of scale just drawing in totally random notes in the piano roll.

So, does any of you have any advice? Like, what do YOU do when you sit down and start making a melody.

I know many of you will say: "Just study music theory, man." But I am already doing that.

And to all you trolls out there.. Don't even.

it just comes with practice man, my melodies were gash for ages until i just practiced and got better with time

Cheeky wrote:it just comes with practice man, my melodies were gash for ages until i just practiced and got better with time

Yeah, I know. It's just been bugging the hell out of me lately.. If you can't provide a decent melody, then what can you do? ):

Stick to a scale. What DAW do you work in?
If you think your melodies are gash, analyze them and pinpoint why they suck. If you cant find out why it sucks, start deleting/shortening notes. The notes you don't play are as important as the notes you do play. Are you playing with different note lengths? Maybe adding portamento to some notes and not others? Variation is key in most things including melody. You want to keep a concept but present in slightly new lights as you develop your 16 bar melody or whatever.
As a good starting exercise, write a decent 4 bar loop, copy it, and mess with a few notes. Copy that 8 bar melody and vary the last one so it brings closure to the whole loop. Easy shit right?

Killamike49 wrote:Stick to a scale. What DAW do you work in?
If you think your melodies are gash, analyze them and pinpoint why they suck. If you cant find out why it sucks, start deleting/shortening notes. The notes you don't play are as important as the notes you do play. Are you playing with different note lengths? Maybe adding portamento to some notes and not others? Variation is key in most things including melody. You want to keep a concept but present in slightly new lights as you develop your 16 bar melody or whatever.
As a good starting exercise, write a decent 4 bar loop, copy it, and mess with a few notes. Copy that 8 bar melody and vary the last one so it brings closure to the whole loop. Easy shit right?

Thanks for the advice, will definitely try some of this!

One question, though. When you write within a certain scale, lets say F minor. Do you HAVE to start with the note F?

EDIT: I am mainly using FL 10. But, I am learning Live 8.

Nah son. Then you're in a different mode (i think), which is sort of a different scale, but with the same notes. For example, if you started on A in CMaj, you'd then be in A minor, even though you're still using Cmaj. It's because A has become your root. If you want a more in depth explanation Musictheory.net should satisfy, because I'm a bit rusty on my high school music theory knowledge, haha.

I'd suggest also learning an instrument if you haven't.

Learn how to play other people's songs. Really helps a lot.

I try to write away from the piano roll as much as possible. Generally if i can whistle/play it on piano and it sticks in my head for a few days, its track ready.

InternetSlaveMaster wrote:I'd suggest also learning an instrument if you haven't.

Learn how to play other people's songs. Really helps a lot.

Do you know any places I can find notes from other songs, that isn't written on sheet music?

do you use keyboard?
drawing to piano roll newer work

learn some music theory. Specifically learn about consonance and dissonance; the traditional roles scale degrees play in melody (EG the relationship between the tonic and the dominant/subdominant, why the mediant defines a mjor or minor feel depending on its relation to the tonic e.t.c.) Learn about cadence and repose and motifs and other bits of general traditional melodic structuring. This stuff can be transfered over into any scale or mode.

The thing is, if something sounds 'good' to us, it's unavoidably using this stuff wether the composer knows it or not. Its because of the physical science behind the mathematical relationship of different pitches as expressed in equal temperament tuning (or sometimes not) and how that psychoacoustically translates to an emmotional response. Natural Minor scales (Aeolian mode) always sounds sad in comparison to major scales, because of the more dissonant (mathematical, frequency) relationship between the tonic and the mediant. I > V chords always sound harmonious... e.t.c. Regardless of scale or key.

Just learn your theory man. You can't build a building without at least some understanding of structural integrity and engineering e.t.c. You can't write music (unless you're a savante) without some kind of map to orient your process.

Turnipish Thoughts wrote:learn some music theory. Specifically learn about consonance and dissonance; the traditional roles scale degrees play in melody (EG the relationship between the tonic and the dominant/subdominant, why the mediant defines a mjor or minor feel depending on its relation to the tonic e.t.c.) Learn about cadence and repose and motifs and other bits of general traditional melodic structuring. This stuff can be transfered over into any scale or mode.

The thing is, if something sounds 'good' to us, it's unavoidably using this stuff wether the composer knows it or not. Its because of the physical science behind the mathematical relationship of different pitches as expressed in equal temperament tuning (or sometimes not) and how that psychoacoustically translates to an emmotional response. Natural Minor scales (Aeolian mode) always sounds sad in comparison to major scales, because of the more dissonant (mathematical, frequency) relationship between the tonic and the mediant. I > V chords always sound harmonious... e.t.c. Regardless of scale or key.

Just learn your theory man. You can't build a building without at least some understanding of structural integrity and engineering e.t.c. You can't write music (unless you're a savante) without some kind of map to orient your process.

This sounds very interestring I must say! Could you maybe provide me with a link?

virks wrote:do you use keyboard?
drawing to piano roll newer work

Only keyboard I have is a Korg Nanokey

And Downlink said in an interview that he draws all his melodies as he don't know how to play piano. So, yaaa, it does work.

you don't have to start a melody on the first note of a scale for it to be in that key . there are certain notes you can choose to play first that hep establish a tonal center, that way when you depart form it it gives u a sense of where to head for home ("resolve") ... establishing a key is weird, it can be done straightforward based on the first notes and the last notes of a phrase, where it starts and where it resolves. But sometimes you can be in a key and avoid it's center the entire time.

good exercise:

Open a project, lay down a drone - that can be your key
open a new instrument that isn't a drone, play some melodic passages or just notes overlapping the drone note. See how they interact with it, make some choices as far as what sounds suspended and what sounds resolved.

Change the drone's pitch to a new random or non-random pitch, continue the exercise in a new key. continue until you've explored the sound of each phrase you played overlapping each n every note on the drone instrument . You will begin to understand the functions of certain notes and sequences given their context of a bottom drone (aka pedal-tone) , or key

keep it fucking simple, a lot of the best melodies are not even melodies, but just v simplistic phrases, placed and arranged in the correct manner.

if that doesnt work, learn how to use an appegiator, yes its not organic blah blah blah but when worked well u can get really interesting sounds from it that are out of ur traditional comfort zone...

DubMikey wrote:

virks wrote:do you use keyboard?
drawing to piano roll newer work

Only keyboard I have is a Korg Nanokey

And Downlink said in an interview that he draws all his melodies as he don't know how to play piano. So, yaaa, it does work.

Obviously a lot of producers only use the piano roll, but it's not about what works for them it's about what works for you. Rusko still produces with Acid and I wouldn't touch that program with a 5 foot pole this decade. Regardless of what anyone uses, I'll always stand by the fact that a physical piano is the single strongest tool that any songwriter can learn to utilize. And what turnipish said is pretty on point, even though he went off on a musical jargon wankfest. Just learn the theoretical progression of music and writing will become a lot easier. Reading Wiki articles isn't a bad place to start. Look up scale degrees (tonics, subtonic, mediants, dominants etc...) pretty much everything else you'll need to know will be linked from those pages. A lot of the time these days I just read college theory textbooks to brush up on shit.

just switch between black and white notes without giving a fuck about scales

F#, A#, B and E, F, B for example just combine the most evil sounding chords tbh maybe as a pad or a arp

Attila wrote:

DubMikey wrote:

virks wrote:do you use keyboard?
drawing to piano roll newer work

Only keyboard I have is a Korg Nanokey

And Downlink said in an interview that he draws all his melodies as he don't know how to play piano. So, yaaa, it does work.

Obviously a lot of producers only use the piano roll, but it's not about what works for them it's about what works for you. Rusko still produces with Acid and I wouldn't touch that program with a 5 foot pole this decade. Regardless of what anyone uses, I'll always stand by the fact that a physical piano is the single strongest tool that any songwriter can learn to utilize. And what turnipish said is pretty on point, even though he went off on a musical jargon wankfest. Just learn the theoretical progression of music and writing will become a lot easier. Reading Wiki articles isn't a bad place to start. Look up scale degrees (tonics, subtonic, mediants, dominants etc...) pretty much everything else you'll need to know will be linked from those pages. A lot of the time these days I just read college theory textbooks to brush up on shit.

Yeah, I know I gotta do what works for me and not someone else. I was just pointing out that drawing DOES work.

But yeah, looks like I gotta read up on a lot more theory, haha.

Reading up theory is good. But at the same time (VERY IMPORTANT) remember that all theory does is try to explain why stuff that sounds good sounds good and suggest ways of making other stuff sound good by doing the same thing. If something sounds good that doesn't fit in with what you know of theory, it doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means that either you don't yet know the bit of theory that explains it, or noone's come up with theory to explain it yet. So if an off-scale note sounds good, go with it and worry about the theory later.

This will happen more the less theory you know. So learn lots but don't be afraid to do other stuff too.

I'm not that good there too, but knowing about consonance and dissonance^ really helps.