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In America, we are awaiting the court's decision on our health care reform. Presently, the only Government health care is in the form of payroll deducted Medicare/Medicaid to the elderly, disabled, and poor children. The reform includes a mandate for all to puchase insurance from a private insurer, while the poor will receive a subsidy for their purchase or Medicare if they earn even less.

Noticing a lot of Europeans on the forum, I was interested in how your country's care works.
Is there a health care tax seperate from social security?
What percent of income is deduced for health care? Is it a progressive rate?
Does it also cover vision and dental?
Do you just present your card to a receptionist @ the office?
Do you pay anything aside from payroll tax?
Is there a long wait for treatment?

Belgium
Standard Health Care package for WORKING people :
Pension
Unemployment
Work Related Accidents
Work Related Disease/disability
Child Benefit
Health Insurance
Yearly Vacation

Working people contribute by giving up a certain part of their wage. This is usually determined by your yearly income: the higher it is the more you give up.
The rest of the whole is filled by "community tax", IE the community pays for eachothers benefits.
Unions, Health Insurance company's and The Employers Organisation are consulted when negotiating about the percentages of income people have to give up.

Standard package for the UNEMPLOYED :
"Leefloon" : state funded: minimum wage.
Older people have a minimum GUARANTEED pension, state funded
Minimum Child Benefit GUARANTEED, state funded
Handicapped people are GUARANTEED a minimum income
=> these are matters of FEDERAL concern and need to be adressed in the parliament.

Of course, there are variables. How any one can OPPOSE this system is beyond me really. Then again, I'm a Socialist.
Waiting times are minimal. Hospitals and Doctors conform to a minimum standard, which is outrageously high. The same standard applies anywhere so there's no cheaper or expensive alternatives. Going to the doctor is very expensive, but you can recuperate up to 90% of the costs. Dental is about 75%, Vision is very high I believe, I personally would like more attention to ear/nose/throat medicines and treatments, as I suffer from those and I often only get 50% recompence. plastic surgery is under debate right now.

The nhs is top notch! We have superb gp's that go out of their way to help and diagnose. Waiting lists are virtually non existent and our hospitals are clean, fully staffed and provide excellent care.

JBoy wrote:The nhs is top notch! We have superb gp's that go out of their way to help and diagnose. Waiting lists are virtually non existent and our hospitals are clean, fully staffed and provide excellent care.

Good to know. In US, a big arguement against a socialized system is long waits and bad quality.

In England it's not perfect, but I'd say most people are fairly happy with it. If you need healthare you have access to it. The emphasis is on care rather than competition and profit. As it should be.

The current government, however, seem to disagree with this idea. They, it appears, intend to destroy what we have now and re-model it more on the U.S. system, with a greater emphasis on competition. Sounds like a fucking great idea.

I understand that over in America you have almost 50million people without health insurance (http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/13/news/ec ... /index.htm).

Re your question, if you look it this it suggests that moving towards universal healthcare (the way it works most of Europe) it would be fairer and more cost effective:
http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsocio ... eographic/

JBoy wrote:The nhs is top notch! We have superb gp's that go out of their way to help and diagnose. Waiting lists are virtually non existent and our hospitals are clean, fully staffed and provide excellent care.

You sound bitter, take a seat over there and we can sort you out in 6-8 weeks.

For me personally the NHS has been pretty sweet.
Then again i have only been to A/E maybe 6-8 times in my life (1 really,really bad ankle sprain, one small fracture on foot, one tnuc smashing a pint glass across my head and times as a kid)
one operation to remove my tonsils.
Ultrasound on my shoulder when they thought Id tore the muscle.

Drs have sorted any problems pretty quick but I dont have any mental illnesses or disability's (that I know of...).

Pay national insurance and everything outside of Dentistry (subsidized?) and Perscriptions (flat rate of £7 i think) is "free?"

Johnlenham wrote:

JBoy wrote:The nhs is top notch! We have superb gp's that go out of their way to help and diagnose. Waiting lists are virtually non existent and our hospitals are clean, fully staffed and provide excellent care.

You sound bitter, take a seat over there and we can sort you out in 6-8 weeks.

joeki wrote:
Of course, there are variables. How any one can OPPOSE this system is beyond me really. Then again, I'm a Socialist.

Careful, I made that statement on here once, to be told by a chip-in American "It's not about the capitalist system, it's about not being able to afford it as a country", I didn't waste my time pointing out the obvious that coincidentally, one of the richest countries in the world has less social protection & employee rights in the 1st world. The UK is not far behind in terms of employee rights but at least we "have" a decent welfare state, however abused it's become.
I am more than happy knowing some of my tax contributions are paying for someone else to improve their health or life. The worst thing that can happen to a society is the poorest not having that opportunity.

Johnlenham wrote: For me personally the NHS has been pretty sweet.

This has been the case for me as well.

A big problem in the states is healthcare isn't just about doctor or hospital visits, it starts with childhood and learning how to live healthy. Diet alone is the reason most people in the states become ill and have to visit docs. This is a very touchy subject for conservatives. Look how big a shit they took when Michelle Obama simply suggested kids start eating better. The right wing called it everything from socialist to fascist to racist. The funny thing is though, she's absolutely correct. If kids are brought up with a good diet, they will have far less problems needing medical care later, leaving it to the people with emergencies and injuries.

As mentioned it's a for-profit healthcare system which is really fucked up imo, similar to the profit prison system.
There's a lot of people who want to keep you sick or locked up because it's in their best interests financially.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

joeki wrote:
Of course, there are variables. How any one can OPPOSE this system is beyond me really. Then again, I'm a Socialist.

Careful, I made that statement on here once, to be told by a chip-in American "It's not about the capitalist system, it's about not being able to afford it as a country", I didn't waste my time pointing out the obvious that coincidentally, one of the richest countries in the world has less social protection & employee rights in the 1st world. The UK is not far behind in terms of employee rights but at least we "have" a decent welfare state, however abused it's become.
I am more than happy knowing some of my tax contributions are paying for someone else to improve their health or life. The worst thing that can happen to a society is the poorest not having that opportunity.

We can afford it, but we give huge tax cuts to the wealthiest individuals. Republicans (capitalists) assume they create more jobs this way, but really the wealthy are just sitting on cash and investing it overseas. A recent attempt to raise their taxes was blocked, while student loan interest rates double in July. Sad in my eyes.

A year at Uni cost me 90€ because I come from a one parent family. The usual non scholarship students had to pay around 400-500€ though. Still, If you compare the Uni costs with America and nations like Japan, I'm baffled. It's not that the standard is any lower...on the contrary.

wormcode wrote:A big problem in the states is healthcare isn't just about doctor or hospital visits, it starts with childhood and learning how to live healthy. Diet alone is the reason most people in the states become ill and have to visit docs. This is a very touchy subject for conservatives. Look how big a shit they took when Michelle Obama simply suggested kids start eating better. The right wing called it everything from socialist to fascist to racist. The funny thing is though, she's absolutely correct. If kids are brought up with a good diet, they will have far less problems needing medical care later, leaving it to the people with emergencies and injuries.

As mentioned it's a for-profit healthcare system which is really fucked up imo, similar to the profit prison system.
There's a lot of people who want to keep you sick or locked up because it's in their best interests financially.

So true, especially in my area (Appalachia). Why not tax fast food like we do cigs?

I know I'll come across biased because of my political leanings and while I'm not too pivy on the exact workings of the Dutch healthcare system.. the actual service we get is pretty terrible. The hospitals are all top notch facilities though with great equipment and you know.. when you need a nurse, you can ring 'em and they've all been friendly to me personally. But the staff doesn't really care. I don't wanna get too much into exactly why (it involves the death of a family member). They don't care if you live and even if they know you're dying. Let's say you're on your deathbed and you're on an airmatras that is deflating? They won't bother to inflate it because 'you're about to die anyway' and that's what they'll tell your family members. Even if it just takes a push of a button. Or botching a chemo therapy, repeatedly, something as simple as injecting a needle into your arm, which burns your arms and disables you form getting chemo for months.

It's not just my personal experience, but from a lot of people I know. A friend of mine's dad is going through the same thing.

Amber Trichome wrote:So true, especially in my area (Appalachia). Why not tax fast food like we do cigs?

*must contain anger*

Amber Trichome wrote:

wormcode wrote:A big problem in the states is healthcare isn't just about doctor or hospital visits, it starts with childhood and learning how to live healthy. Diet alone is the reason most people in the states become ill and have to visit docs. This is a very touchy subject for conservatives. Look how big a shit they took when Michelle Obama simply suggested kids start eating better. The right wing called it everything from socialist to fascist to racist. The funny thing is though, she's absolutely correct. If kids are brought up with a good diet, they will have far less problems needing medical care later, leaving it to the people with emergencies and injuries.

As mentioned it's a for-profit healthcare system which is really fucked up imo, similar to the profit prison system.
There's a lot of people who want to keep you sick or locked up because it's in their best interests financially.

So true, especially in my area (Appalachia). Why not tax fast food like we do cigs?

We've actually begun doing exactly that here in Denmark, a so-called "fat tax" - extra tax on all fatty foods like candy etc. The additional tax is very limited right now, but it'll be interesting to see if it's gonna have any effect.

As for healthcare, I can't describe it as elaborately as some other people have done in this thread, but everything from a visit to the doctor's to major surgery is paid for via regular taxes. The only thing I can think of that require payment is dentistry and a small percentage of prescriptions. We also have one of the highest tax rates in the world which to be fair suits me fine as long as everyone gets equal access to whatever treatments they require.

Ireland's is a complete mess, people dying on trolley beds in hospital hallways constantly, last government made a mess of it, new government want to reform similar to Dutch system but the money really isn't there. UK has it good, got one of their priorities right with a good health system.

i am lucky enough to live in one of the minority of countries in the world where healthcare is universal, free at the point of use, and the variability of care quality is relatively small.

the first and last of those qualities are currently under great threat from reform, and probably the second too. there are always improvements to be made in care quality. but honestly, overall, i am really not going to bitch about it too much.

edit: i am feeling particularly at peace this evening though.

Genevieve wrote:

Amber Trichome wrote:So true, especially in my area (Appalachia). Why not tax fast food like we do cigs?

*must contain anger*

Dude it's cool. I'm open minded toward all positions so I can make a fair comparison. I understand the arguement that healthcare pros may work harder if they had a mountain of debt over their heads. In my post I was just suggesting that if we tax fast food higher, prices would raise, and people might choose healthier alternatives instead.

It's a touchy subject, but I can feel for what Genevieve is saying:
Palliative care in Belgium too is a farse (especially for the older people). But perhaps that has more to do with the mindset of the average citizen, rather than healthcare itself.

Also, I forgot to mention, but of course, the biggest part of healthcare is payed for by employers rather than citizens, in case that wasn't obvious. We tax company's a lot (hence they move to the third world) so that in fact they are taking care of their employees.