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I used to have a Verb running the entire time back when I was inexperienced, but now that I've learned quite a lot (even getting close to programming Verbs pretty well from scratch), as well as the fact I'm determined to only mix when I'm finished writing, as I have a horrible OCD tweaking problem that derails me otherwise, I'm thinking about keeping everything off & dry right up until the mixdown.

Problem:

This would probably be ok in HipHop/Rock.
But in EDM verb could potentially be part of the sound I need to hear during production.

Not sure that's true, but thinking aloud. Anyone prefer a method?
Should I wait till mixdown to fire up my Verbs?

During production defo... At the mixdown stage you must alter the complete vibe and sound of the tune.

what...

first of all mixing is part of production
second, anything you do to a sound that isn't direct "sound-design" , composition, or arrangement, is mixing. That's all that's left. Whether or not you record it wet, or add verb later, it's still part of your mixdown cuz it's part of mixing. Whether or not you use an insert or a send, it's still part of mixing.

Second of all, if i'm using verb as a tool for sound design, it's during "production" i guess, in the sense you're using the word
but if i use it to incorporate space to a sound, rather than to generate or drastically alter a sound, then it is mixing, even if i used a synth's built in reverb.

Bottom line, i tend to write and record my stuff and then add verb during the mixdown. Usually one short hall or room , and one large plate/big open space on aux sends.
sometimes an extra or two, as inserts or sends depending on how many instruments need it. i.e. a snare plate, or a piano verb
Recording wet is a bad idea for a couple reasons
1. if you distort or saturate or compress you can't remove the verb first .. i'd generally prefer not to distort or compress wet sounds
2. editing. if you need to make a quick edit to a stripe of audio, but recorded it wet, well, you're never going to be able to perfect your time-based effects after that point, because it's been recorded already. You snip a bit of audio and paste it with another for a quick fix or change in the arrangement, and you've snipped off the sound's reverb tail. Not good imo.

ketamine wrote:This would probably be ok in HipHop/Rock.
But in EDM verb could potentially be part of the sound I need to hear during production.

As Today hinted at, you can apply of reverb during "production" without the need to commit to anything, just put your reverb on a send.

Then again, in a DAW setting there's no need to worry as most things can be undone with ease.

On a side note of sorts, as much as I enjoy reverb units/plugins I really love recording synths running through some form of amplification in a room.

Today wrote:Bottom line, i tend to write and record my stuff and then add verb during the mixdown. .

Why couldn't you just say that, this is all I really wanted to know. I know what Mixing is. I swear the arrogance around here...

But anyway, thank you for your response. When you finally got to the point, it exactly what I was looking for & helped a lot.

ketamine wrote: Why couldn't you just say that, this is all I really wanted to know. I know what Mixing is. I swear the arrogance around here...

because the phrasing of the question suggested otherwise...

production vs mixdown..... these are not distinctly different processes

i'm gathering you meant recording wet vs. dry

Today wrote: i'm gathering you meant recording wet vs. dry

Yes. I thought having a random preset on to get a general feel for the track would be good, but the fact is, you get used to it, and then its part of the sound, whether its right for it or not--so I'm thinking of waiting until Final Mixdown to add any Verbs that are for spacial placement. (i.e. far away, up close) etc.

i write with verb and delay on all the time but just click bypass, then i print each part to audio
when i'm done with all that, i set u the aux sends and pretty much match what I had going on before
but then u can change anything about it

If it's a sound design thing on a synth, then I will do it during production, but otherwise I tend to leave it 'till mixing.

Today wrote:i write with verb and delay on all the time but just click bypass, then i print each part to audio
when i'm done with all that, i set u the aux sends and pretty much match what I had going on before
but then u can change anything about it

Definitely during the writing. I recognize what you mean though, but to me, that's something for
mixing down bands and stuff.

Sometimes you need some verb to get the sound you want, so I would use it during the creative/writing stage of production.

I really need to do something to every sound i add to my mix to get the feeling what my whole mix sounds like. So yea, i do add reverb when im producing, before the final mixdown to get the vibes of the tune...


never drink and write foreign language...

It totally depends on what your aiming for, when im doing a dubtechno-ey tune i find the verb that sounds good and stick with it all the day. When its dubstep or techno i open it up and close it back down with automation. Its not like there is one single way to use verb.

It's pretty simple really.

If the reverb is going to be a "feature" of the sound and is part of the sound design process (will usually be longer reverbs, say over 1 second) then incorporate it into your production work.

Any other use of reverb, whether it be gluing, ambience, moving back in the mix, is all mixing.. do this at the end (according to your workflow model)

Ascian wrote: (according to your workflow model)

????

What if I do both

ehbrums1 wrote:What if I do both

your music will probably implode and be too awesome for this planet

bkwsk wrote:

ehbrums1 wrote:What if I do both

your music will probably implode and be too awesome for this planet

Your tunes are probably gonna sound pretty flat, as in on the plane of the speakers, without reverb. so why don't you just keep a short or medium one on a send to glue your tune together? granted in edm, everything goes out the window, maybe your tune will go harder without it- i don't know. But i think towards the end of your production process you could start putting a huge spacey verb on a couple of different elements like snare and backing vox perhaps.