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In the last 5 years I've had dealings with a few labels, had an EP, single releases & done a few remixes etc. One of those labels has just last week thrown in the towel due to poor sales and being unable to recoup mastering and promotional costs. This was a label that had 30 releases, had some well established names involved from the start and basically knew what they were doing but it was still haemorrhaging cash. Labels are dropping left right and centre these days.

Makes me think why even bother with them anymore. Has anyone here had success selling their music themselves through bandcamp, etc ?

The plus side of a label is obviously the promotional aspect, they do all that for you and get your tunes to the right people etc.

What are your views on the modern day record label?

Do we still need them or is possible to self release and still gain enough exposure?

I honestly believe they are needed now, more than ever. The technology exists now for anyone to sell and promote their own stuff. The problem is the technology also exists for anyone to make music. The market is so saturated it's extremely difficult for an independent artist to build a decent sized fan base. Even if you do manage to build a good size fan base the question then becomes is it a fan base that's willing to support you and buy your music or are they just going to find it on youtube or a torrent site.

There was a time I think when labels sort of lost their importance in a way. This was kind of a short period though when the internet was really strong but the music technology hadn't yet caught up. But even then I think it really was more useful to artists that had already been involved and had built a large following through previous labels. Eventually they got tired of dealing with the labels and went independent. It worked quite well for them because enough people already knew who they were so they weren't really losing anything in the exchange.

I think the biggest issue with these small labels is the same thing that's happening with the music market. There's just far too many of them. I mean these guys are having to find the talent just like anyone else. With the market being so bloated it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to do that. These small labels rely on the artist to bring them fans as much as the artist relies on the label. I think a good example of that would be Hyperdub.

Hyperdub existed for an entire year before they released Burial's South London Boroughs EP. Before that I had no clue it even existed and I really liked Kode9 at that time. But the day I heard that EP was the day I started paying attention to that label and I've been buying their releases ever since. Don't get me wrong, I love Kode9's music, but I don't know how well the label would have done without the Burial releases.

A lot of these small labels that are going down are having the same issue with not having that name that's going to really get it off the ground. Whether they like it or not they need a name that is going to bring people in immediately. They either need to bring in someone who's already at that level or they need to try like hell to build someone to that level. Unfortunately, small labels have a hard time building those names cause they are suffering from the same issues the independent artists are suffering from. The best a lot of them can do is just hope and pray that by sheer luck something really big happens.

Selling music yourself without a label is goin to be pretty hard unless you got a solid around 50 thousandish fanbase..

JBE wrote:I honestly believe they are needed now, more than ever. The technology exists now for anyone to sell and promote their own stuff. The problem is the technology also exists for anyone to make music. The market is so saturated it's extremely difficult for an independent artist to build a decent sized fan base. Even if you do manage to build a good size fan base the question then becomes is it a fan base that's willing to support you and buy your music or are they just going to find it on youtube or a torrent site.

There was a time I think when labels sort of lost their importance in a way. This was kind of a short period though when the internet was really strong but the music technology hadn't yet caught up. But even then I think it really was more useful to artists that had already been involved and had built a large following through previous labels. Eventually they got tired of dealing with the labels and went independent. It worked quite well for them because enough people already knew who they were so they weren't really losing anything in the exchange.

I think the biggest issue with these small labels is the same thing that's happening with the music market. There's just far too many of them. I mean these guys are having to find the talent just like anyone else. With the market being so bloated it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to do that. These small labels rely on the artist to bring them fans as much as the artist relies on the label. I think a good example of that would be Hyperdub.

Hyperdub existed for an entire year before they released Burial's South London Boroughs EP. Before that I had no clue it even existed and I really liked Kode9 at that time. But the day I heard that EP was the day I started paying attention to that label and I've been buying their releases ever since. Don't get me wrong, I love Kode9's music, but I don't know how well the label would have done without the Burial releases.

A lot of these small labels that are going down are having the same issue with not having that name that's going to really get it off the ground. Whether they like it or not they need a name that is going to bring people in immediately. They either need to bring in someone who's already at that level or they need to try like hell to build someone to that level. Unfortunately, small labels have a hard time building those names cause they are suffering from the same issues the independent artists are suffering from. The best a lot of them can do is just hope and pray that by sheer luck something really big happens.

Yes! Precisely this. Especially the first paragraph. Having your music on a label gives it some sort of credibility. That can set your music apart from all the other shit out there.

Hostile Invasion wrote:

JBE wrote:I honestly believe they are needed now, more than ever. The technology exists now for anyone to sell and promote their own stuff. The problem is the technology also exists for anyone to make music. The market is so saturated it's extremely difficult for an independent artist to build a decent sized fan base. Even if you do manage to build a good size fan base the question then becomes is it a fan base that's willing to support you and buy your music or are they just going to find it on youtube or a torrent site.

There was a time I think when labels sort of lost their importance in a way. This was kind of a short period though when the internet was really strong but the music technology hadn't yet caught up. But even then I think it really was more useful to artists that had already been involved and had built a large following through previous labels. Eventually they got tired of dealing with the labels and went independent. It worked quite well for them because enough people already knew who they were so they weren't really losing anything in the exchange.

I think the biggest issue with these small labels is the same thing that's happening with the music market. There's just far too many of them. I mean these guys are having to find the talent just like anyone else. With the market being so bloated it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to do that. These small labels rely on the artist to bring them fans as much as the artist relies on the label. I think a good example of that would be Hyperdub.

Hyperdub existed for an entire year before they released Burial's South London Boroughs EP. Before that I had no clue it even existed and I really liked Kode9 at that time. But the day I heard that EP was the day I started paying attention to that label and I've been buying their releases ever since. Don't get me wrong, I love Kode9's music, but I don't know how well the label would have done without the Burial releases.

A lot of these small labels that are going down are having the same issue with not having that name that's going to really get it off the ground. Whether they like it or not they need a name that is going to bring people in immediately. They either need to bring in someone who's already at that level or they need to try like hell to build someone to that level. Unfortunately, small labels have a hard time building those names cause they are suffering from the same issues the independent artists are suffering from. The best a lot of them can do is just hope and pray that by sheer luck something really big happens.

Yes! Precisely this. Especially the first paragraph. Having your music on a label gives it some sort of credibility. That can set your music apart from all the other shit out there.

On the flip side you shouldn't expect to make any money when dealing with labels unless you end up with something in the charts (and i don't mean beatport top 10).
Honestly it's just a pain in the ass to make any money from the actual sales of music anymore vs live shows, unless you are selling your own stuff without a label.
It kind of has become a trend in all branches of EDM that once someone gets a bit of popularity on someone else's label they start their own.
You could also say there is an oversaturation of labels to some degree as well, even with some of the major players coming out with sub-genre labels or offshoots.

who wouldve heard burial w/o kode?

JBE wrote:
A lot of these small labels that are going down are having the same issue with not having that name that's going to really get it off the ground. Whether they like it or not they need a name that is going to bring people in immediately. They either need to bring in someone who's already at that level or they need to try like hell to build someone to that level. Unfortunately, small labels have a hard time building those names cause they are suffering from the same issues the independent artists are suffering from. The best a lot of them can do is just hope and pray that by sheer luck something really big happens.

truth, just one of the vicious cycles in music

that being said, my label sells quite a few mp3's and I'm able to pay my artist for their work (not mind blowing amounts of money but enough to buy Fifa 13 on a good release) and I'm not exactly popular

ObscenityDubstep wrote:Selling music yourself without a label is goin to be pretty hard unless you got a solid around 50 thousandish fanbase..

don't really agree. its about the loyalty of the fanbase not the number

Here's the thing the traditional market has been collapsing for awhile (with the RIAA etc shooting themselves in the foot all the time not adapting to the changes), and with services like Spotify coming to the forefront less and less people will be paying for music.
It's kind of the same collapse the porn industry is having, sales are down, "actors/actresses" can't get near as much work as possible, it's cheap as hell to produce a new movie and pretty much anyone has the access to do it, no one wants to share their proclivities on social networking sites, an overabundance of material available for free on steaming sites and services.
I think it's safe to say the traditional record label model/music industry parallels that pretty much to a tee with the exception of sharing what you dig on social networks.
We're also talking about a niche genre market, although it definitely has gone a bit more mainstream popularity wise without the core labels really doing so, but obviously there are exceptions.

I think another question that should be asked is that say if you have a successful label launch, should you still depend on P&D deals from distros. Even just within the last decade we've seen labels disappear due to distros collapsing and then not being able to sustain themselves to continue releases.
It kind of shows a lack of business sense and a dependence on a third party to continue your business.

deadly habit wrote:
I think another question that should be asked is that say if you have a successful label launch, should you still depend on P&D deals from distros. Even just within the last decade we've seen labels disappear due to distros collapsing and then not being able to sustain themselves to continue releases.
It kind of shows a lack of business sense and a dependence on a third party to continue your business.

I've been thinking about this lately, i can get a distro (no pressing just distro)

but to me distros seem redundant digital and vinyl, how much vinyl is brought in record shop ? their just delivering it to different warehouses for online sale
chemical,boomkat,redeye etc

rayman612 wrote:who wouldve heard burial w/o kode?

His neighbours.

I think it's useful to organize the financial side of getting music to the public.
I'm not really looking to make money of my own productions though, can't see it happening really.

AxeD wrote:

rayman612 wrote:who wouldve heard burial w/o kode?

His neighbours.

I think it's useful to organize the financial side of getting music to the public.
I'm not really looking to make money of my own productions though, can't see it happening really.

Honestly with how easy integrated socail networking is with everything and how easy it is for an artist to open a digital shop with something like Bandcamp it's kind of showing the redundancy of labels at this point in the game. People used to follow labels because they knew they offered a collective of similar sounding artists or some artists had exclusivity deals with them. It used to be a branding of sorts you'd go to the shop and know that oh something new from 'xyz label', but I've never heard of the artist, but they have a solid track record.
Now I'd say it's easy to just go to someone's fan page, soundcloud, youtube etc and have access to their entire catalog of music without having to go through the middle man.

Soulstep wrote:

deadly habit wrote:
I think another question that should be asked is that say if you have a successful label launch, should you still depend on P&D deals from distros. Even just within the last decade we've seen labels disappear due to distros collapsing and then not being able to sustain themselves to continue releases.
It kind of shows a lack of business sense and a dependence on a third party to continue your business.

I've been thinking about this lately, i can get a distro (no pressing just distro)

but to me distros seem redundant digital and vinyl, how much vinyl is brought in record shop ? their just delivering it to different warehouses for online sale
chemical,boomkat,redeye etc

Depends on the label/record most small/medium labels do runs that are 300-500 plates per single to give you an idea, how many get sold online vs physical storefront is also territory dependent as well, but unless it's a well known artist or huge label most physical shops are only going to pick up 1-3 units would be my guess. You are talking a niche genre and beyond that a niche medium at this point.