Dubstepforum.com

Sorry for the vague thread title I still struggle a bit with english.
I've been producing with FL for over a year now and I think I'm starting to get good (less bad), but I've been told the biggest issue with my stuff is that it still sound too clean and digital compared to my influences (Nights Slugs, ClekClek, Astro Nautico...)
I'm experimenting with a lot of different techniques but I fail to obtain that sense of consistency and "color" that I'm after. I find myself endlessly tweaking reverb settings without any satisfying results (how much lows should I cut ? Size ? Decay ? Stereo separation ?), like they say you're supposed to get a feel of the room the instruments are played in but all I hear is raw data. I want things to be more organic but I don't want to muddy my mix.
I always add some kind of noise, sampled or massive generated but it often sounds like something tacked on rather than an integral part of the song, even if I sidechain it. Panning also gave me a lot of trouble since day 1, I stick to the golden rules like kick and bass always centered but I'm afraid to overdo it when it comes to drums and synths. I swear I repan everything like twice a day.

Here are two examples of what I think are consistent, warm mixes :





Any advice/technique you'd want to share ? Some magical plugin I should be aware of ?

Wear headphones when you're panning things. Try to think about not only the frequencies things are taking up but their stereo space too. For warmth maybe try using saturators or layering some vinyl crackles or hiss. Also only cut out frequencies that need to be taken out. Just because you want a pad to fill the mids doesn't mean you should filter out all the highs and lows, weyour eears not your eyes

Soft Saturation/Analogue channel strip emulators

Satson seems to work charms. Other than that, sample/patch choice.

Really shitty response I know but hey.

Brothulhu wrote: Also only cut out frequencies that need to be taken out. Just because you want a pad to fill the mids doesn't mean you should filter out all the highs and lows, weyour eears not your eyes

I'm glad you mention this because I used to do my EQing with the subtlety of a drunk viking lumberjack, a bad habit I picked up while trying to get my stuff to sound good on soundcloud (brickwall limiting was the real culprit anyway). I'm trying to find the sweet spot beetween lifeless and downright dirty, a lot of tracks I dig have "imperfections" that actually sound great, I'm thinking of Bambounou, some Mathias Zimmerman tracks...

"Soft Saturation/Analogue channel strip emulators

Satson seems to work charms. Other than that, sample/patch choice.

Really shitty response I know but hey."

Will definitely try this out, thank you.
Any thoughts on reverb ? I usually start by adding light reverb on some drums, vocals and synths, sounds great until I try to blend it with dry instruments like hats and clicks. When the bass kicks in, I don't want it to get lost in the mix so I tend to have this hi reverb, almost like a hiss, makes everything sound kinda hollow.

Edit : Another problem I'm having right now is that I always thought having different kinds of reverb was a bad idea, but I'm working on a track that's built around a Roland D-50 melody, and its reverb is so defining (you know, that 80's sound ?) that I just can't mix it with FL's plugin or Glaceverbe. I know I ask too many questions at once so feel free to ignore this.

Find and read the EQ tutorial that talks about putting frequencies in a box. It will help I'm sure. It's been posted here a few times and is on some drum and bass site

http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thin ... tutorial/5

^this is the article, very much worth reading.

As for "warmth" plugins can work, but really my advice is to start reading up on what it is about old analog recording methods that created that warmth. It's the limitations of the mediums (tape) and the machines used that created imperfections that become desirable. Recording engineers learned how to work with their gear to make these limitations work to their advantage often recording hot onto to tape, for example, to create subtle coloration (distortion) and compression.

I've been chasing this animal name analog warmth for a few years at least. I think understanding what exactly "warmth" is important. They is a really great article/review in Sound on Sound this month on Slate Digital's tape emulation vst. The important part isn't the review, but an awesome overview of how the emulation was created, which explains how an old school mastering tape machine/and multi track tape machine works.

i can go on forever about this stuff but need to get to my classes. I'll try to come back and leave some more thoughts. feel free to pm me.

As the others have said I think what you're looking for is some saturation/excitation. Reverb will play a role in making your sounds feel like they take place in reality, which can go a long way to making your music sound like its more natural, but I think for the "warmth" and "grain" you're trying to achieve the tool you're looking for is definitely saturation/distortion/excitation/analogue emulation.

As a side note, there's nothing wrong with using different reverbs, some short ones to add tail to instruments and another long one as a vocal send (a send because you don't want to shove your vocals into the background, which reverb has a tendency to do) and another reverb over the top to make them all sound like they take place together in a natural environment is not at all unheard of.

Back to the subject at hand, though, you might want to look into tape emulation: I really want to get my hands on this particular plugin http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=11702

You could maybe pick up izotope, which aside from a myriad of other toys has a exciter with 4 bands to control, it does a particularly nice job emulation tubes, I've found. Or pick up an emulation of an old school analogue EQ or Compressor (waves Vcomp comes to mind, it even has a noise floor) and just run your signal a little hot through that without even compressing or eq'ing. There are several ways to arrive at the same destination.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're going for that 80's reverb sound, gated reverb is the way to go

My tips:
>Analogue style/modelled saturation
>Analogue modelled compression
>Use a plugin to add/layer by hand vinyl noises/scuffs/dust into the track
>Use a plugin to add tape style compression/wow/flutter
>Use a plugin/layer by hand electrical hum (50/60Hz)
>Layer real analogue samples/pads into your tracks

Also, @triphosphate... I didn't think much to Kramer Master Tape tbh.

mthrfnk wrote:My tips:

>Use a plugin/layer by hand electrical hum (50/60Hz)


Also, @triphosphate... I didn't think much to Kramer Master Tape tbh.

Oooh adding electrical hum, brilliant! You no like the Kramer?

I know this is ableton, but it might help you:

mthrfnk wrote:My tips:
>Analogue style/modelled saturation
>Analogue modelled compression
>Use a plugin to add/layer by hand vinyl noises/scuffs/dust into the track
>Use a plugin to add tape style compression/wow/flutter
>Use a plugin/layer by hand electrical hum (50/60Hz)
>Layer real analogue samples/pads into your tracks

Also, @triphosphate... I didn't think much to Kramer Master Tape tbh.

I love KMT myself, but I'm looking into getting something else. From what I've read it would seem KMT is at the bottom of the list of good/accurate tape emulations. Slate Digital's looks pretty legit. I'm def. downloading the demo on that one. SOS even rated it higher than UAD's Ampex emulation (I think, I'd have to double check the article) I took me a while to figure out how to make it do what I wanted an the presets are generally useless. The more I read about the science behind tape saturation/compression and about digital modeling the more I realize a good tape emulation is actually going to be pretty subtle.

I think mthrfnk has got a good collage of techniques going there. Personally I usually forgo the low end noise, except maybe if I'm using KMT to squeeze the master a bit. I don't like getting too much of that low wend noise going...things tend to get muddy if you over do it.

mthrfnk wrote: >Layer real analogue samples/pads into your tracks

In my opinion this is going to help you more than anything else. Rather than synthesizing all of your sounds just use quality samples. Blu Mar Ten released a free sample pack not too long ago that I've been using lately (all vinyl ripped samples) and it's made a world of a difference in terms of my sounds.

All these posts were very helpful, thanks everyone. Currently experimenting with some vst's like Rubytube and X-Cita, I love what I hear so far.

Huts wrote:

mthrfnk wrote: >Layer real analogue samples/pads into your tracks

In my opinion this is going to help you more than anything else. Rather than synthesizing all of your sounds just use quality samples. Blu Mar Ten released a free sample pack not too long ago that I've been using lately (all vinyl ripped samples) and it's made a world of a difference in terms of my sounds.

Yep, I recently got a pack of analogue sub samples and use them with Kontakt. I don't know why but I always struggled to get nice sounding subs, despite the fact a sine wave pretty much is all you need, but now they sound a lot better imo.

Also I got a pack of analogue pads, but the preview sounded a lot better than the pack... haven't really used them lol.

Plenty of good suggestions here, sample choice being the most important, especially for drums. In regard to reverb, try adding a bit crusher after it, this will add plenty of grain and you can side chain it to your drums, to avoid havin to hi-pass it so much. Also low passing most of your elements down to around 12khz, can help.

A very subtly modulated pitchshifter on synths can add warmth also.

sometimes i record individual sounds onto cassette and resample them. adds grit and flavor to the sounds

This issue is a bit of a lark. If your tracks are good, good sounds, move well, break in the right spots, good hooks, layering of sounds, good width, if all that is good doubtful anyone will say "too digital" or "too clean". Instead they'll say clean mix, etc. This is something to watch out for. Best to focus on those other things before you start dumping mud into your tracks. Just saying. It is not like I haven't spent years persuing texture.

theres sample packs that have tape destortion and hardware destortion or what ever. goldbaby sample packs are great, they have at least 3 versions of tape destorted samples. recomended highly by me. some great layering tools in there!

nowaysj wrote:This issue is a bit of a lark. If your tracks are good, good sounds, move well, break in the right spots, good hooks, layering of sounds, good width, if all that is good doubtful anyone will say "too digital" or "too clean". Instead they'll say clean mix, etc. This is something to watch out for. Best to focus on those other things before you start dumping mud into your tracks. Just saying. It is not like I haven't spent years persuing texture.

Funny thing is I got the attention of a label because of a track I felt was too dirty (unintentionally so), now that I learned a few tricks and produce cleaner mixes they say that it lacks "realism".

And finally run it thru an old leather shoe to give it that oaky tone.