Dubstepforum.com

Or to give this thread it's full title;

"Has the vibe of old skool Dubstep production aesthetic been lost as a result of changing processes and advances in technology, both in terms of instruments and post production/mastering plugins?"

Interpret as you wish, but the overall aim that I'm going for is that as the sounds/instruments/tech used in production have evolved, so to has the production, to the point where the old/original sound (which I am in no way suggesting is better, this is all objective/observational) and the ability to create it has been lost.

I wouldnt say the abillity to create it has been lost but maybe just the willingness to create it due to changing trends.

JTMMusicuk wrote:I wouldnt say the abillity to create it has been lost but maybe just the willingness to create it due to changing trends.

This would suggest that it's less a matter of advancement, but more a matter of creativity being replaced with a need to latch onto trends and secure more mainstream (re; successful) achievements?

surely its more creative to explore new styles and production styles than to keep banging out the same vibes for years

dubstep has always been about thinking outside the box and to carry on making the old style would surely be against what i believe the bass music scene stands for (shit storm in 3...2...1)

JTMMusicuk wrote:surely its more creative to explore new styles and production styles than to keep banging out the same vibes for years

Agreed, not disputing this. But at a loss of the original vibe of the genre? It is possible to incorporate new technology advancements whilst maintaining an original feeling to things. Just wondering how much of a drop off in creativity occured around about the start of 2007 when Massive was released and went big...

You've got to look at McLuhan's model of cultural augmentations and amputations as a consequence of technological innovation.

The tools we use alter our thinking, but then we can't function without them. Seems to have happened in dubstep music. Some producers would have to readjust if they couldn't use Massive any more.

I think it just seemed like creativity dropped at that time because of the massive influx of new producers with their cracked software when becoming a producer was the new 'in thing' alot of people were at the same production standard at the same time. Just imagine if guitars grew naturally in the wild, just how many songs would there be which are in the 1 4 5 progression.

from what you read and hear about it sounds like it was just some guys dicking around in a cracked copy of fruity loops in there bedrooms. With out access to the internet and hearing about the next new vst and what x producer used to make something.
If you listen to something like dubstep allstars vol 2 it is just beats and bass. Anything other doesn't have amazing sound design or anything it seems quite simple but yet they created this amazing vibe through that. And it seems as if they where more concerned with creating a mood and a vibe rather than something technically amazing.

You can look at grime as well, comparing the old stuff (pulse X, eski, etc) to the stuff thats getting pushed today (preditah, Faze Miyake etc) theres alot more going on and its less stripped back

jonahmann wrote:You've got to look at McLuhan's model of cultural augmentations and amputations as a consequence of technological innovation.

http://beforebefore.net/80f/s11/media/mcluhan.pdf ?

jonahmann wrote:The tools we use alter our thinking, but then we can't function without them. Seems to have happened in dubstep music. Some producers would have to readjust if they couldn't use Massive any more.

I like this statement. Would, however, this mean that by forcing people to use 'older' techniques that their sound would devolve back in terms of the original sentiments within the genre?

JTMMusicuk wrote:I think it just seemed like creativity dropped at that time because of the massive influx of new producers with their cracked software when becoming a producer was the new 'in thing' alot of people were at the same production standard at the same time.

I admit that if the instances of cracked Massive VST just disappeared yesterday, the Dubstep landscape (and electronic music in general) would be very different.

JTMMusicuk wrote:Just imagine if guitars grew naturally in the wild, just how many songs would there be which are in the 1 4 5 progression.

Not too sure about this...guitars (at least IME) foster creativity a lot more so than (for example) Massive does as a performance tool. But maybe this is down to the breadth of guitar music available being far more diverse than the generic Massive sounds?

OllieScott wrote:from what you read and hear about it sounds like it was just some guys dicking around in a cracked copy of fruity loops in there bedrooms. With out access to the internet and hearing about the next new vst and what x producer used to make something.

Not necessarily true - music magazines etc have had features on production/gear before the Internet existed in the extreme form (both in terms of content & accessibility) that it does today.

Though this comment does neatly paraphrase an idea I was putting about the other week - how much would someones production benefit if they stayed off the Internet for 3 months?

OllieScott wrote:If you listen to something like dubstep allstars vol 2 it is just beats and bass. Anything other doesn't have amazing sound design or anything it seems quite simple but yet they created this amazing vibe through that. And it seems as if they where more concerned with creating a mood and a vibe rather than something technically amazing.

You can look at grime as well, comparing the old stuff (pulse X, eski, etc) to the stuff thats getting pushed today (preditah, Faze Miyake etc) theres alot more going on and its less stripped back

Again, these are points that I like. Maybe it's because the 'original' vibe of things was the stripped back minimal sound and that's what made it appealing, knowing that there wasn't the wall of noise effect going on as there is today...

Would a Dubstep track released today with only 5/6 elements at most (as some of the 'original' tracks had) have any sort of impact?

the vibe hasnt gone, its just moved on... somewhere else.

wub wrote:Would a Dubstep track released today with only 5/6 elements at most (as some of the 'original' tracks had) have any sort of impact?

Unless it did something new or was by a well known producer from back then, it wouldn't. Music is all about progression and its fine showing an influence from past times but straight up copying something that has been done and gone isn't going to stand out unless there's something new about it.

The reason it did so well back then and grew so much is because it was new and hadn't really been pushed before.

Like if you look at pearson sound/rama, his track arent overly complex and only have a few elements, but because he has his style and brought something different to the game he stood out. Which is why i always say, the only way to be successful through producing music is to bringing something new.

http://beforebefore.net/80f/s11/media/mcluhan.pdf ?

That's the one. Starting around page 52.

I like this statement. Would, however, this mean that by forcing people to use 'older' techniques that their sound would devolve back in terms of the original sentiments within the genre?

Yes.

yeah

this forum is becoming metalinfluenceddubstepforum.com

OllieScott wrote:from what you read and hear about it sounds like it was just some guys dicking around in a cracked copy of fruity loops in there bedrooms. With out access to the internet and hearing about the next new vst and what x producer used to make something.
If you listen to something like dubstep allstars vol 2 it is just beats and bass. Anything other doesn't have amazing sound design or anything it seems quite simple but yet they created this amazing vibe through that. And it seems as if they where more concerned with creating a mood and a vibe rather than something technically amazing.

definitely agree with this

People make music with the tools that are available at the time. This hasn't really changed throughout history, new technology just gives new options. We just have more choice available now, as a result we're hearing different new music.

I certainly wouldn't say that any vibe has been lost - if people want to make older style dubstep then there's nothing stopping them.

Nope.

Music technology has hardly advanced significantly since 'dubstep' was 'invented'.
Say for the sake of argument that it started in 2001...we already had VSTs, cracked software, high quality plugins of all kinds, Mac/Windows support, digital vinyl systems, mp3 downloads, floating point audio DAWs, shitty sample packs, bad mastering, good mastering, shit producers, good producers, "sound like X" tutorials, etc etc etc etc.

The vibe of the old shit has been lost because people have been drawing their influence from a now-established genre. In 2001, the genre didn't exist so people had to look elsewhere for influence hence the garagey/metaley/funky/dubby dubstep. These days the overwhelming majority is dubsteppy dubstep.

£10 Bag wrote:The vibe of the old shit has been lost because people have been drawing their influence from a now-established genre. In 2001, the genre didn't exist so people had to look elsewhere for influence hence the garagey/metaley/funky/dubby dubstep. These days the overwhelming majority is dubsteppy dubstep.

Musical inbreeding.

£10 Bag wrote:
The vibe of the old shit has been lost because people have been drawing their influence from a now-established genre. In 2001, the genre didn't exist so people had to look elsewhere for influence hence the garagey/metaley/funky/dubby dubstep. These days the overwhelming majority is dubsteppy dubstep.

I like that.

£10 Bag wrote: The vibe of the old shit has been lost because people have been drawing their influence from a now-established genre. In 2001, the genre didn't exist so people had to look elsewhere for influence hence the garagey/metaley/funky/dubby dubstep. These days the overwhelming majority is dubsteppy dubstep.

+1

which brings us back to Wub's other topic, http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=258573.