Dubstepforum.com

So recently I've created sounds & wobbles using Massive.

I think there be a lot of potential within the bowels of this plug-in

However I heard Skrillex and a few others use FM8 to make their wobbles? It looks really complex and weird with all the letters and linking and numbers and whatnot, can;t seem to grasp it yet. (havent really tried, anyway)

Question is, what do you use? and is there something 'better' than the other. Are the sounds they make really different, like can one make a sound the other can't? Use both or stick to one!

May love and prosperity be upon you.

Thor

master massive first, get to know the basics of subtractive synthesis. If you are talented enough you can achieve everything you want just with this synth.
Or if you want you can go head first and try a bit more complex fm synthesis and make your learning curve harder. I guess it all depends on your capacity.

Eridu wrote:master massive first, get to know the basics of subtractive synthesis. If you are talented enough you can achieve everything you want just with this synth.
Or if you want you can go head first and try a bit more complex fm synthesis and make your learning curve harder. I guess it all depends on your capacity.

So if anything is achievable with mastering massive, why go through fm synthesis, since it's so obviously less intuitive? Does it make better sounds if mastered, or not necessarily?

3za wrote:nah it use 2 b bout MASSIVE but now tis all bout FM8 cause dat wat SKRILLEX use

i qout myselve

Rappone wrote:

Eridu wrote:master massive first, get to know the basics of subtractive synthesis. If you are talented enough you can achieve everything you want just with this synth.
Or if you want you can go head first and try a bit more complex fm synthesis and make your learning curve harder. I guess it all depends on your capacity.

So if anything is achievable with mastering massive, why go through fm synthesis, since it's so obviously less intuitive? Does it make better sounds if mastered, or not necessarily?

Ok... if you master massive and fm8 in a way you know each synth both inside and out, you can make better, more versatile and more interesting sounds with fm8.

Eridu wrote:
Ok... if you master massive and fm8 in a way you know each synth both inside and out, you can make better, more versatile and more interesting sounds with fm8.

Great! Thanks. I'm going to dig more into FM8 now *goes on search for tutorials*

Look at fm synthesis instead

You can use any synth you like.

You might not get the same results using two different synths to get a similar sound, because of the method of synthesis and the differences in tonalities that imparts. Every synth tends to breed a different sound to another, although most synths allow you to create pretty much any sound you want, provided you're talented enough to create it.

Massive relies on wavetables for additive synthesis, FM relies frequency/phase modulation for synthesis. Because of this inherent difference in how the sounds are synthesised within each synth you can generate different end results for certain sounds. In my experience, Massive is more intuitive - I can think "right I need this sound" and make it quite easily by fiddling with the wavetables, filters and automation. However I find a lot of the time that sounds from Massive can lack weight unless I use multiple osc's or layer stuff. In contrast I still find FM8 quite hard to use, even though I try every now and then to sit and learn more about it, although I do think that when you get a good sound out of it, it ends to be very harmonically rich and won't need as much layering.

My tip, learn one synth in and out and then consider getting something else.

If you're looking to use FM8 straight off, learn about generic FM synthesis first. If you're interested specifically in basses search SeamlessR's tutorials on YouTube, he has some FM8 ones but mostly uses Sytrus (an FL native FM synth) but some of the Sytrus stuff cannot be recreated in FM8 due to the fact he relies on it's additive engine which FM8 lacks. Oh and a word of warning, most FM8 tutorials on YouTube with titles like "EPIC SKRILLEX GROWL" suck - most of the end sounds are a wall of midrange distorted noise that has a vague vocal quality.

mthrfnk wrote:You can use any synth you like.

You might not get the same results using two different synths to get a similar sound, because of the method of synthesis and the differences in tonalities that imparts. Every synth tends to breed a different sound to another, although most synths allow you to create pretty much any sound you want, provided you're talented enough to create it.

Massive relies on wavetables for additive synthesis, FM relies frequency/phase modulation for synthesis. Because of this inherent difference in how the sounds are synthesised within each synth you can generate different end results for certain sounds. In my experience, Massive is more intuitive - I can think "right I need this sound" and make it quite easily by fiddling with the wavetables, filters and automation. However I find a lot of the time that sounds from Massive can lack weight unless I use multiple osc's or layer stuff. In contrast I still find FM8 quite hard to use, even though I try every now and then to sit and learn more about it, although I do think that when you get a good sound out of it, it ends to be very harmonically rich and won't need as much layering.

My tip, learn one synth in and out and then consider getting something else.

If you're looking to use FM8 straight off, learn about generic FM synthesis first. If you're interested specifically in basses search SeamlessR's tutorials on YouTube, he has some FM8 ones but mostly uses Sytrus (an FL native FM synth) but some of the Sytrus stuff cannot be recreated in FM8 due to the fact he relies on it's additive engine which FM8 lacks. Oh and a word of warning, most FM8 tutorials on YouTube with titles like "EPIC SKRILLEX GROWL" suck - most of the end sounds are a wall of midrange distorted noise that has a vague vocal quality.

Thanks for that! And yeah i don't search for 'skrillex growl' tutorials, I'm not one to imitate anyway. Definitely gonna dig deeper in FM8, while reverting to Massive every once in a while.

Rappone wrote:why go through fm synthesis, since it's so obviously less intuitive?

Subtractive, Additive and FM Synthesis "are" and sound completely different.

Massive is much easier.

I feel like at first everyone was like, "yeah those are sounds that only FM can make" and eventually if you wanna make them you gotta learn/get FM8. but now it seems people are just trying so hard that they're forcing these sounds of massive anyways (i.e. growls n shit)

So I guess it comes down to that, massive is easier. But I for one will get FM8 once I've really mastered Massive. as it does seem the sounds you can get out of FM8 are fuller and need less processing. they also don't seem to have that metallic sound that when you create big mid range sounds in massive tend to have (I understand that massive does not have this "sound" people used to debate about, but it si true when you aim for a specific sound with massive, it does sound like that sound in massive.)

Zebra 2

Skirllex doesn't make wobbles.

Why not use em both? There's no rule that limits you to use one synth only you know.

I think it better to master one. I use Absynth.

Sytrus anyone?

Theres a reason that pro producers like skrillex and big choclates use fm8 and not massive. massive is good for when you are first starting out and you need some cracked synth (fm8 is impossible to crack because of the complex routing engine) but when you get better you want to upgrade to fm8. when you send your track to a professional for master if you have 3 db of headroom the transients in massive gets squashed and clipped whereas the transients in fm8 retain an analog and warm sound fm8 has an fm mastering transient-retention engine and upgraded analog sound engine with tubes inside the synth. this is how skrillex was able to invent dubstep and DnB. if you listen to my name is skrillex ep it sounds like dogs baloney because he was using massive still because he was poor but then he got money and bought fm8 and made scary monsters listen to it you can tell the fm routing right away in the sounds

Sure_Fire wrote:Sytrus anyone?

yes especially since every image-line plugin is $45 at the moment.
OP just buy sytrus, its as high quality as fm8 and its dirt cheap for the next week or so.