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I wish I didn't learn it first, and I don't think anyone should learn it first either.
basically, I'm trying to learn some other DAWs and apparently my knowledge about routing and setting up channels is nonexistent.

Basically, what I've learned (and what I want to share with people who might be starting out is) don't start in ableton if you plan to use something besides ableton.

I know there are a lot of reasons why people love Ableton (and I love it too) but I'm bumping my head on its 32bit functionality (Big Projects Crash out) so I'm looking around for a 64 bit DAW. However, it my trials it seems I'm spending more time learning basic routing instead of getting a feel for the daw.

Tl;DR-

i went from reason 2 ableton & am so hapy

Well that is not Ableton's fault, it is just your inexperience.

Besides, a switch to any new DAW is going to take some time to get used to.

I love the routing in Live by the way.

Easy there killer.
I understand Live in and out.
But the way it handles things are a lot different than some the more traditional DAWs.
In that respect I wish I had started with a different DAW.

What I was saying is Live handles things alot differently than other DAWs, and I would suggest to people that were starting out to start on another DAW first.

I'm guessing you didn't start in ableton.

Switching DAWs is always going to cause confusions. /thread

fragments wrote:Switching DAWs is always going to cause confusions. /thread

Fair enough

I started with ableton and have little to no experience in other DAWs, I could see what you mean as people use terminology that goes for all DAWs but not exactly for Ableton. for instance "bussing", I didn't figure out bussing=groups until a couple weeks ago lol.

although, I'm pretty happy with ableton and can't imagine I'd be wanting to run a different daw/do routing stuff for a long time if ever. Seems like unnecessary complication.

I'd agree with you. Thing is with Ableton is that it's so user friendly and it's hard to produce on anything else once you've used it, which is a shame because it falls woefully short when it comes to mixing and I've never been happy with the sound.
The general consensus seems to be that arranging in Ableton then mixing in Logic / S1 / PT is the way forward, I just wish that wasn't necessary.

Houston Weather wrote:Easy there killer.
I understand Live in and out.
But the way it handles things are a lot different than some the more traditional DAWs.
In that respect I wish I had started with a different DAW.

What I was saying is Live handles things alot differently than other DAWs, and I would suggest to people that were starting out to start on another DAW first.

I'm guessing you didn't start in ableton.

To the patch bay with you, son! Figure that signal path out!

Perej wrote:I'd agree with you. Thing is with Ableton is that it's so user friendly and it's hard to produce on anything else once you've used it, which is a shame because it falls woefully short when it comes to mixing and I've never been happy with the sound.
The general consensus seems to be that arranging in Ableton then mixing in Logic / S1 / PT is the way forward, I just wish that wasn't necessary.

Sounds like you been spending too much time on gearslutz. They'll tell you the same about reason, people still release tunes off it.

DAW wars is a conspiracy perpetrated by the software companies to make you buy shit you don't need.

Houston Weather wrote: I know there are a lot of reasons why people love Ableton (and I love it too) but I'm bumping my head on its 32bit functionality (Big Projects Crash out) so I'm looking around for a 64 bit DAW. However, it my trials it seems I'm spending more time learning basic routing instead of getting a feel for the daw.

You have a point. I've worked with Cubase, Logic Pro and Pro Tools and they were all fairly easy transitions. When I first sat down with Ableton my head pretty much exploded. Your dilemma works both ways. However I have found the most important element for me with a DAW is work flow and after learning live 8 properly my song construction and workflow improved dramatically. If you can invest in the Live 9 update that should support 64 bit and there is a Live 8 Beta that supports 64bit. If your having VST overload issues, freezing midi tracks and re-sampling techniques should save you on system memory and is good practice. It's important to settle with a DAW quickly so you can concentrate on honing your production skills and not loose time re-learning GUI's etc.

Houston Weather wrote:

fragments wrote:Switching DAWs is always going to cause confusions. /thread

Fair enough

Actually Studio One, Logic, Cubase and Sonar are really similar

I've never had any problem with Ableton besides maybe 2 crashes out of over 30 projects.

You will get issues with any DAWS don't think you're going to switch DAWS and be golden there are issues with everything you ever download.

Another tip: OCD save like I do..don't work on a whole intro and a drop without saving. Not smart.

drake89 wrote:

Houston Weather wrote:Easy there killer.
I understand Live in and out.
But the way it handles things are a lot different than some the more traditional DAWs.
In that respect I wish I had started with a different DAW.

What I was saying is Live handles things alot differently than other DAWs, and I would suggest to people that were starting out to start on another DAW first.

I'm guessing you didn't start in ableton.

To the patch bay with you, son! Figure that signal path out!

Perej wrote:I'd agree with you. Thing is with Ableton is that it's so user friendly and it's hard to produce on anything else once you've used it, which is a shame because it falls woefully short when it comes to mixing and I've never been happy with the sound.
The general consensus seems to be that arranging in Ableton then mixing in Logic / S1 / PT is the way forward, I just wish that wasn't necessary.

Sounds like you been spending too much time on gearslutz. They'll tell you the same about reason, people still release tunes off it.

This. spending too much time on forums listening to other people express opinions like fact tends to give you tunnel vision when it comes to production.

Honestly (and I can't apply this to everyone), all the people i know who re-rout through multiple DAWs obsessively, are the same ones who hoard VSTs and complicated plug-ins, are the same ones who concentrate way too much on the technical aspect of production, are the same ones who have a very narrow mindset about production, and end up with tunes no better than anyone else's and a lot of the things achieve with all the overcomplication could be done without it. you know, those people who seem to know EVERYTHING in much detail about producing music, yet they themselves actually aren't very good at it at all(can think of multiple people on this forum like this).

Keep it simple stupid.

All DAWs essentially do the same thing, so why would you need to use more than one? Only thing I can understand is wanting to learn Reason because of its synths and all that, but even that's not even necessary. Just make tunes

I do agree with the fact that mixing in ableton is a pain.By no means am I saying that you cant get top quality mixes straight out of ableton. Although compared to say logic and the way its mixer window is set up makes mixing a treat.

What would you recommend? The next popular ones are FL, Reason and Logic. The first two are quirky, and the third is only available on Mac. Maybe Reaper, being so inexpensive, but MIDI and audio channels are the same.

Somebody did already mentioned that Ableton 9 will be 64bit.

And what's different about routing in Ableton? You still decide where sound is coming from and going to.

I are mad at Ableton because I am bad at other DAW?

The only good DAW is FL Studio

joegrizzly wrote:All DAWs essentially do the same thing, so why would you need to use more than one?

plenty of situations.

--ableton is a great creative environment. load a million things into a rack, assign macro's, and tweak away. doing that in logic would require you to build a big PiTA in the environment, maybe even keep track of arcane midi info... ableton's just better at that.

--I'm extremely fast w/ key commands, etc in logic. I get stems for a remix project in and want to change the tempo. I could flex-time each stem, take a few hours to get everything to line up and sound right-- and still wind up w/ a startingpoint where my audio sounds worse than it would in ableton. warp and export in ableton, work in logic.

--a buddy of mine is a PT whiz but loves the airwindows plugs and a bunch of channel strips he's created w/ logic's internal instruments. create sounds in logic, export and mix in PT.

--working on a theater piece in which i need to be really malleable with tempos, routings, pitches, etc but based on patches and sounds i built ages ago in logic. export from logic, perform in ableton. go back and do tweaks and different versions of sounds in logic, keep ableton updated as a big sample bank of previously-created sounds and different variations and routings of them.

could i do most of the ableton/logic stuff in mainstage? Probably... but do i have time to learn a new DAW? not at all.