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Today as an experiment I plan to make a track as quick as possible, not use any analysers and forget the science and just throw down exactly what I think sounds good at the time.

Is this a waste of time? It will be like the first time I ever made music except I know the DAW pretty well, what do you guys think?

Why don't you do it then tell us if it was useful or not?

Well although that is a good point I'm not the best person to judge, I mean I could think its the best track in the world ever but it could sound like shit. "Why don't you post it" I hear you say, well how can you judge since I'm not that experienced anyway. I've not been doing this a year yet.

I asked this as a way to gauge how much people value the science, I mean its art at the end of the day but there always seems to be endless discussion on technique which obviously seems important. I was wondering if someone would say "that's what you should be doing anyway you plum" and I'm also curios if anyone else has done this. For the record I am actually going to do it, I've just started, it wasn't just rhetoric.

I can let you guys know what I personally think yes of coarse but it will still be subjective, any other thoughts on abandoning science in the aid of art?

what do you reckon?

Is making music a good idea or not?

johney wrote:what do you reckon?

Well I don't know what is more important I'm asking you guys. I've been doing this about 9 months and maybe I'm feeling like I'm getting so overwhelmed with science that its clogging up the creative side of my brain. How do you strike a balance? It's a difficult one....

See that track in my sig, well I'm bored of it now but I will still use it as an example. The production to me doesn't sound like his best but the creativity in there i think excels his latest stuff. Without turning this into a debate about zomboy my point is that the track I would bet was made faster and more care free than his latest stuff.

"Guy's I'm planning to do "xxxxxx", but I'm making this thread first to get your approval"

Just do it, can't be a bad thing... it's all practice. If it's shit, so what - bin it or make it better over time. That's how production works, just experiment.

Tbh when I make stuff I don't "think about the science" and I don't get hung up on analysers (or numbers), in fact I only use one - on the master, and only glance at it now and then to check my levels and phase information, I rarely go about analysing frequencies down to a tee. Just make stuff in a way that feels natural and that sounds right to you, I've been producing ~2+ years now and I find I can just go about making something without focusing on the "right" way to do stuff, but naturally or unconciously I will do "correct" things out of habit e.g. I'll high pass synths to make room for sub (a shitty example but you get the point).

Also I don't get why you have a zomboy track in your sig...

mthrfnk wrote:"Guy's I'm planning to do "xxxxxx", but I'm making this thread first to get your approval"

Just do it, can't be a bad thing... it's all practice. If it's shit, so what - bin it or make it better over time. That's how production works, just experiment.

Tbh when I make stuff I don't "think about the science" and I don't get hung up on analysers (or numbers), in fact I only use one - on the master, and only glance at it now and then to check my levels and phase information, I rarely go about analysing frequencies down to a tee. Just make stuff in a way that feels natural and that sounds right to you, I've been producing ~2+ years now and I find I can just go about making something without focusing on the "right" way to do stuff, but naturally or unconciously I will do "correct" things out of habit e.g. I'll high pass synths to make room for sub (a shitty example but you get the point).

Also I don't get why you have a zomboy track in your sig...

Umm ironically you gave me the sort of answer I was looking for right after you protested my question and I don't know why I have that track there anymore either . I'm not looking for anyone's approval I'm looking for people's thoughts on the the right side of the brain vs the left. You my friend are clearly a right sided person and seem to have that nailed but I fear my left side is getting so much attention lately that my right doesn't get a look in. Hence my experiment and question.

Writing songs is more important than the technical stuff. I here a lot of technically good tunes with absolutely no soul. From top producers to bedroom producers. Ive really started to force myself to do arrangement first. I'm much happier with my songs.

fragments wrote:Writing songs is more important than the technical stuff. I here a lot of technically good tunes with absolutely no soul. From top producers to bedroom producers. Ive really started to force myself to do arrangement first. I'm much happier with my songs.

I'd give my right arm to have more musical skill! But for the sort of music that inspires me, technical knowledge is important too. I try to work on different areas each time i practice, in the hope it'll all come together.

There's certainly a lot to be said for arrangement first. I enjoyed the Noisia vid - they start by making a ton of sounds, then just start a project and have all the sounds ready, so they can just focus on arrangement.

don't do it man, not worth the risk tbh

VirtualMark wrote:for the sort of music that inspires me, technical knowledge is important too. I try to work on different areas each time i practice, in the hope it'll all comes together

That seems to be me exactly!

For the record this track is not going too well!

It really depends in my opinion. Of course... just experiment! Find YOUR way of doing things.

For example, the track in my sig, was created purely out of me throwing shit loads of effects onto the kick for about 3 hours, randomly twiddling knobs because as soon as I heard the kick when browsing through my sample library it struck something in me that I liked, I just wanted to bring out the aspects of the sound that I liked. If that makes sense?

So basically I spent hours doctoring the kick - with not one other sound on the sequencer. Once I had a few instances of the kick I was happy with, the track came together in a few hours. Felt so easy!

However, other times I will throw a load of random sounds onto the sequencer and worry about changes samples and engineering the sound properly after.

So basically, yeah experiment. Find what works for you. Maybe either way works, in which case you can mix it up like I do depending on how you are feeling at t he time!

Hope this helps in some way?

Am very interested to hear what you come up with in your little experiment!

Sliverdub wrote:

VirtualMark wrote:for the sort of music that inspires me, technical knowledge is important too. I try to work on different areas each time i practice, in the hope it'll all comes together

That seems to be me exactly!

For the record this track is not going too well!

Keep at it mate, i've been on it about 2-3 years now and i'm still not happy with my stuff. From what i've read it can take 5-10 years to get really good. I know a lot about production now and have read a ton of books, watched a ton of videos etc. It just comes down to practice now for me really. Not to say i can't learn more, but there is a point of diminishing returns when you watch masterclasses and that sort of thing.

One thing i've found that helps lately is having a good mapped out midi controller - i'm using the novation 25sl mk2. I can fire up a synth and already have parameters mapped to it, comes in handy for experimenting with sound design. There's a certain connection you make with hands on imo.

Another good thing to try is collaborating with someone, that way you can get fresh ideas that you wouldn't have thought of. Even if the tune sucks, it's all practice.

tg

mr echo wrote:It really depends in my opinion. Of course... just experiment! Find YOUR way of doing things.

For example, the track in my sig, was created purely out of me throwing shit loads of effects onto the kick for about 3 hours, randomly twiddling knobs because as soon as I heard the kick when browsing through my sample library it struck something in me that I liked, I just wanted to bring out the aspects of the sound that I liked. If that makes sense?

So basically I spent hours doctoring the kick - with not one other sound on the sequencer. Once I had a few instances of the kick I was happy with, the track came together in a few hours. Felt so easy!

However, other times I will throw a load of random sounds onto the sequencer and worry about changes samples and engineering the sound properly after.

So basically, yeah experiment. Find what works for you. Maybe either way works, in which case you can mix it up like I do depending on how you are feeling at t he time!

Hope this helps in some way?

Am very interested to hear what you come up with in your little experiment!

That track is mostly all from the kick? its fucking awesome man fair play! and completely original sounding, sounds likes some sinister death march and I just noticed that this little guy is going to the beat. Yeah it did help, Im going to skip the 140 for now and just lay down a beat I like no matter what genre it ends up. Maybe I'm forcing the issue with dubstep.

Thanks for the advice guys and Virtualmark umm my track really does sound terrible

Sliverdub wrote:See that track in my sig, well I'm bored of it now but I will still use it as an example. The production to me doesn't sound like his best but the creativity in there i think excels his latest stuff. Without turning this into a debate about zomboy my point is that the track I would bet was made faster and more care free than his latest stuff.

Zomboy's done webcam sessions where he basically throws down ideas as they come to him, and fuck they come to him fast. I'm pretty sure he's more efficient now than ever, once you know how to mix it actually frees you up as it becomes second nature. Knowing all the shortcuts in your DAW works wonders as well.

Btw I love Zomboy but P.A.R.T.Y may as well be a skrillex track with all the sampling going on....I suppose that's why it was a bonus track on game time XD

How do you get on these Zomboy cam sessions?

Well ok guys thanks for all the advice, this is what I came up with in the end not much length wise and its not the greatest I know. I applied no conscious science to it but I did do as I do, I just didn't threat about stuff i just stuck it in there and hoped for the best. Please don't be to harsh on me. To the mods i know there is a WIP area its just this is in the context of this thread. Thanks

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71326780/No%20science.mp3

Sliverdub wrote:How do you get on these Zomboy cam sessions?

Well ok guys thanks for all the advice, this is what I came up with in the end not much length wise and its not the greatest I know. I applied no conscious science to it but I did do as I do, I just didn't threat about stuff i just stuck it in there and hoped for the best. Please don't be to harsh on me. To the mods i know there is a WIP area its just this is in the context of this thread. Thanks

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71326780/No%20science.mp3

He usually tweets about them. I watched one before and we had some discussion in a thread on here about it, it looked like he was making this track uber quick but in reality it was kinda "staged" (for want of a better word) since it looked like he was doing stuff from scratch but he clearly had a load of shit pre-setup and was just arranging/mixing a lot of the track.

Also that sounds okay, apart from the midrange tbh. I like the intro, stabby synth and the dubby vibe but not the midrange on the drop - feels out of place, the intro sounds like you should drop into a slow phasey reese sort of bass.

just do it

but make sure your sub bass is at exactly -9 dB with the kick drum 2dB above or it will be the wackest beat ever lool