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I've recently taken an interest in using VSTs that are instrument-specific. I'm talking about a VST that is dedicated to piano or to strings or brass, etc. For example, Ableton's Tension is one that really interests me. For the non-Ableton users, Tension is Ableton's VST devoted to string instruments.

I mainly use synths like Massive, FM8, etc, but I think I could get some interesting results with VSTs that are instrument-specific, because they have different parameters. For example Tension has "stiffness", "friction", "force" and other parameters like that. I want to try some VSTs that have those sorts of parameters.



I downloaded Piano One, which is free, and has a nice high quality and realistic sound, but there isn't much variation you can do to it.

So what are the best VSTs you know of that work like this for piano, strings, and/or brass? I would prefer free ones obviously, but I would maybe be down to buy one as long as it's a reasonable amount of money and it's good.

PS: I am especially looking for one that does saxophone. Also, is this sorta the point of big-name samplers like Kontakt that come with big sample libraries? I never really saw the need to get a sampler other than Ableton's built in one. Is this why people like Kontakt so much?

Lounge Lizard is a pretty good Rhodes piano. Superior Drummer is amazing for drums.

From messing with the Kontakt demo, and I totally want the full reason, the libraries are deff a big ass factor. But Kontakt is huuuuuuuuge. It's bigger than most fucking DAWs. But the libraries that came with the demo do sound great and there's so many tweaking options.

what limitations does the kontakt demo have?

dubunked wrote:I've recently taken an interest in using VSTs that are instrument-specific. I'm talking about a VST that is dedicated to piano or to strings or brass, etc. For example, Ableton's Tension is one that really interests me. For the non-Ableton users, Tension is Ableton's VST devoted to string instruments.

I mainly use synths like Massive, FM8, etc, but I think I could get some interesting results with VSTs that are instrument-specific, because they have different parameters. For example Tension has "stiffness", "friction", "force" and other parameters like that. I want to try some VSTs that have those sorts of parameters.



I downloaded Piano One, which is free, and has a nice high quality and realistic sound, but there isn't much variation you can do to it.

So what are the best VSTs you know of that work like this for piano, strings, and/or brass? I would prefer free ones obviously, but I would maybe be down to buy one as long as it's a reasonable amount of money and it's good.

PS: I am especially looking for one that does saxophone. Also, is this sorta the point of big-name samplers like Kontakt that come with big sample libraries? I never really saw the need to get a sampler other than Ableton's built in one. Is this why people like Kontakt so much?

Learn synthesis then you can make any sound.

Also lounge lizard looks good. I'm pretty sure Phaeleh uses it to get those nice piano parts in his songs. I'm gonna look into it.

@gribble - I know subtractive synthesis inside and out and I still can't make a good brass patch with a full sounding body. Maybe some day if I keep at it, but for now, I would like something that sounds REALISTIC. All my sounds sound very synthetic. Also, it seems like the method for making all brass sounds is the same. I mainly learn from reverse engineering presets or tutorials. What I mean is that there is no difference between trombone and french horn for example in subtractive synthesis. It's all "brass".

In my mind, to synth a truly real brass sound you'd probably have to write two or three patches and somehow chain/layer them together. You might even have to use a combo of different kinds of synthesis. For me, if you want real brass sound you need to sample it. As suggested something like a Kontakt kit or an EastWest instrument is probably the way to go.

I don't mind synthed strings...but brass and woodwinds...real samples are the only thing that "do it for me"...personally...

Gribble wrote:Learn synthesis then you can make any sound.

Great answer dude.
You still need specific tools to do the job. You're not gonna perform physical modelling synthesis with a subtractive synth. And you're not going to get the authenticity of a real instrument with a synth patch.

Genevieve wrote:Lounge Lizard is a pretty good Rhodes piano. Superior Drummer is amazing for drums.

I just mentioned in another thread, VB3 is great for hammond organs, and Vir2 Mojo is an awesome multisampled horn instrument. Stormdrum for epic type drums and Tapspace Virtual Drumline for drumline sounds. String Studio by AAS is great for any type of string sound. You can create hybrid instruments by combining different articulators and resonators. Reaktor Prism is also good for that kind of stuff as well as pads and textures. I like Absynth for modelling acoustic basses since it has some nice resonator options.

fragments wrote:In my mind, to synth a truly real brass sound you'd probably have to write two or three patches and somehow chain/layer them together. You might even have to use a combo of different kinds of synthesis. For me, if you want real brass sound you need to sample it. As suggested something like a Kontakt kit or an EastWest instrument is probably the way to go.

I don't mind synthed strings...but brass and woodwinds...real samples are the only thing that "do it for me"...personally...

Even with samples, it's very hard to get a convincing sound for any complicated phrases. A lot of times you have to combine different sample instruments, sometimes from different libraries to get a distinct sound. I like bouncing out individual instruments with variation on timing, pitch, articulation and processing, and then group all the cuts into a section. Then it actually sounds like individual instruments playing together instead of one monolithic brass section.

The limit on Kontakt is 30 min. And yes, this is (one of) the purposes of it. The full install of Kontakt 5 its almost 50gigs. Plus all the NI expansions. Not to mention there are tons of 3rd party library's.

Spitfire makes some really good sample library's for kontakt.

And most sample library's will work on the Kontakt player which is free. If you haven't downloaded it yet, you should. Still comes with some nice library's.

dubunked wrote:Also lounge lizard looks good. I'm pretty sure Phaeleh uses it to get those nice piano parts in his songs. I'm gonna look into it.

@gribble - I know subtractive synthesis inside and out and I still can't make a good brass patch with a full sounding body. Maybe some day if I keep at it, but for now, I would like something that sounds REALISTIC. All my sounds sound very synthetic. Also, it seems like the method for making all brass sounds is the same. I mainly learn from reverse engineering presets or tutorials. What I mean is that there is no difference between trombone and french horn for example in subtractive synthesis. It's all "brass".

Yeah I get your point. But you can make pretty much anything with FM and modal. Either that, or it's gotta be samples imo.

Gribble wrote:

dubunked wrote:Also lounge lizard looks good. I'm pretty sure Phaeleh uses it to get those nice piano parts in his songs. I'm gonna look into it.

@gribble - I know subtractive synthesis inside and out and I still can't make a good brass patch with a full sounding body. Maybe some day if I keep at it, but for now, I would like something that sounds REALISTIC. All my sounds sound very synthetic. Also, it seems like the method for making all brass sounds is the same. I mainly learn from reverse engineering presets or tutorials. What I mean is that there is no difference between trombone and french horn for example in subtractive synthesis. It's all "brass".

Yeah I get your point. But you can make pretty much anything with FM and modal. Either that, or it's gotta be samples imo.

Most "instrument specific" instruments are sample based, though. Their algorithm just humanizes them really well.

SunkLo wrote:

Gribble wrote:Learn synthesis then you can make any sound.

Great answer dude.
You still need specific tools to do the job. You're not gonna perform physical modelling synthesis with a subtractive synth. And you're not going to get the authenticity of a real instrument with a synth patch.

At which point did I say it has to be subtractive. Learn to read dude.

Part of synthesis is knowing your tools. You can build a sound from one synth or layer a sound with several. Sure, it won't sound 100% real but then I've never heard a convincing instrument vst either.

ssomeone tell me some decent free ones so i dont have to steal anythin g and then feel guilty about it

SunkLo wrote:

fragments wrote:In my mind, to synth a truly real brass sound you'd probably have to write two or three patches and somehow chain/layer them together. You might even have to use a combo of different kinds of synthesis. For me, if you want real brass sound you need to sample it. As suggested something like a Kontakt kit or an EastWest instrument is probably the way to go.

I don't mind synthed strings...but brass and woodwinds...real samples are the only thing that "do it for me"...personally...

Even with samples, it's very hard to get a convincing sound for any complicated phrases. A lot of times you have to combine different sample instruments, sometimes from different libraries to get a distinct sound. I like bouncing out individual instruments with variation on timing, pitch, articulation and processing, and then group all the cuts into a section. Then it actually sounds like individual instruments playing together instead of one monolithic brass section.

Absolutely.

bennyfroobs wrote:ssomeone tell me some decent free ones so i dont have to steal anythin g and then feel guilty about it

same. downloading kontakt right now (it's a long download). Had no idea the "player" was free. This is like Christmas all over again! Are we talking about the whole VST itself being free? It's just the sample libraries that you gotta pay for? Well, I guess I'll find out in about 3 minutes when the DL is finished.

Gribble wrote:

SunkLo wrote:

Gribble wrote:Learn synthesis then you can make any sound.

Great answer dude.
You still need specific tools to do the job. You're not gonna perform physical modelling synthesis with a subtractive synth. And you're not going to get the authenticity of a real instrument with a synth patch.

At which point did I say it has to be subtractive. Learn to read dude.

Part of synthesis is knowing your tools. You can build a sound from one synth or layer a sound with several. Sure, it won't sound 100% real but then I've never heard a convincing instrument vst either.

I never said you did. I'm pointing out that you need different tools to get different results. Saying 'Learn synthesis' isn't a response to the question of which tools are best for certain types of sounds. It's like a carpenter asking what's best for cutting or working with certain materials and you telling him "just learn to build shit man."

Inb4 8 pages of bullshit arguments over semantics and wording.

dubunked wrote:

bennyfroobs wrote:ssomeone tell me some decent free ones so i dont have to steal anythin g and then feel guilty about it

same. downloading kontakt right now (it's a long download). Had no idea the "player" was free. This is like Christmas all over again! Are we talking about the whole VST itself being free? It's just the sample libraries that you gotta pay for? Well, I guess I'll find out in about 3 minutes when the DL is finished.

Yeah but there's free libraries too. It's like the full version but without the ability to edit anything, so basically an instrument playback device.

SunkLo wrote:

dubunked wrote:

bennyfroobs wrote:ssomeone tell me some decent free ones so i dont have to steal anythin g and then feel guilty about it

same. downloading kontakt right now (it's a long download). Had no idea the "player" was free. This is like Christmas all over again! Are we talking about the whole VST itself being free? It's just the sample libraries that you gotta pay for? Well, I guess I'll find out in about 3 minutes when the DL is finished.

Yeah but there's free libraries too. It's like the full version but without the ability to edit anything, so basically an instrument playback device.

You can edit parameters in the library's they give you, but if you try to do anything else it kicks into demo mode.

Yeah they're like macro style right? You can't go in and do any fine editing or sample swapping, it's kind of like high level options.

SunkLo wrote: I never said you did. I'm pointing out that you need different tools to get different results. Saying 'Learn synthesis' isn't a response to the question of which tools are best for certain types of sounds. It's like a carpenter asking what's best for cutting or working with certain materials and you telling him "just learn to build shit man."

Inb4 8 pages of bullshit arguments over semantics and wording.

Yeah well if you don't want arguments, don't criticise others you stupid tnuc. Synthesis doesn't mean just learn subtractive and nothing else, it's knowing your tools and knowing how to make a sound. If the guy knew it well enough he wouldn't be asking.

And it has nothing to do with carpentry, so stop boring us with your stories.

[mod edit] well thats a second warning to your account. give me one more please. [/mod edit]