Dubstepforum.com

From looking at the forum over the last couple of nights I have noticed there is a distinct LACK of proper detailed tech talk like their used to be (probably due to the sound design stuff in a totally different section?) so I am trying to bring some of that back...

I thought it would be a good idea for a thread for people to post detailed examples about tales of things they come across in the studio as a way for us as a community to bring new ways to think when us, ourselves come up against them. I'll start off with the first contribution, obviously.

This would also be a nice thread for people to Q&A each other about things in our tracks people want to know about. Though please, lets keep this between forum members tracks only and try to keep it on a more high brow topic of more than just "LOL HOW U MEAK THT SOUND?"



Main musical element structure: How to play it?

Been thinking of this for a while now and experimenting with it a lot.

So from trying to get my hands to move in the way my mind wants them to in the last few years as my main musical goal, I always come across this debate and decision in the studio once I have found my main musical element.. Do I play it :

Arpeggio
In chords
Small licks/riffs
Single sustained shots.

Obviously there is exceptions where I decide to start in one way of playing and move to the next - or have chords playing with licks going over them in a higher octave with the same sound but fundamentally I tend to stick to one sound : one playing style but eventually I started to feel limited by this and it also proved that my sound design needed to be stepped up as a general rule - most of my sounds where good for playing in one style but bad for all the rest..

Moving from this I wanted to have a way where I could bend and arrange a sound while I am playing with both hands, so I can jam over a track rather than playing in sections as I REALLY lose my groove when I set up for new patterns and such... So I did a bit of thinking which has lead me to set up my piano's sustain peddle to instead of trigger sustain to be a pressure-sensitive switch for filter release (as well as anything else I want to map it to), for 2-hand playing and automating live !

With this it has brought unless amounts of freedom in terms of how I creatively structure sounds - also made me more advanced in sound design due to thinking about filter releases on both an velocity-envelope as well as the filter envelope way - due to having the added possibilities of complex playing while having easy automation.

So the point of this?

Basically what I mean is if you see something which isn't the way you need it : change it!

As we learn we always see the limitations of what we're using once we come proficient in it..

Back in the days of all hardware, studio owners used to learn electronics to repair their gear or even build gear which they felt they needed. Most of the REALLY early stuff was hard crafted PER studio. So in this day we have this endless stream of technology and easy to find knowledge to do pretty much anything we feel like.

Interesting. Subscribing to watch. I'll have something to add at some point, but I want to make it quality.

To add a bit to what you are talking about. I love loading like 3-4 patches into a group in Maschine with different feels to them--something plucky-ish, something with 100% sustain, slow attack, etc. And just write one melody with those instruments. I usually bus process these instruments inside Maschine, using bus processing, reverbs, filters and velocity I control their position in the mix. Then I send them all out to my mixer to a stereo channel. Then it's the Joe Meek MC2 optical compressor on that insert. Maybe side chained to something.

I've been experimenting recently with the Routing in reaper.

Everyone talks about how many possibilities it has, then they just use it for sidechaining, gating and traditional effects (for want of a better term)

I've been experimenting with some very 80s ideas, such as having drum hits launch monophonic sequences.

A complicated one I used was to have a snare drum launch a low sine wave, then have a kick drum to open the gate on the sub, this meant that when a kick followed a snare it was a big subby one, but when it was only a kick drum it was just the transient part.

I'm planning to use this to design a track where everything has an effect on something else, or triggers something else. Hopefully it'll be chaos, but understandably so. Almost like generative music I guess.

Also, regarding the performance aspect. On my dx9 yesterday I made a patch using all the operators, where 2 were set so legato playing was a musical harmonic, and stacato playing was inharmonic. Before this I'd never been that creative with envelopes.

Yes, this! Needs to be more focus on how to make a song rather than how to make sounds already done

Bournio wrote:I've been experimenting recently with the Routing in reaper.

Everyone talks about how many possibilities it has, then they just use it for sidechaining, gating and traditional effects (for want of a better term)

I've been experimenting with some very 80s ideas, such as having drum hits launch monophonic sequences.

A complicated one I used was to have a snare drum launch a low sine wave, then have a kick drum to open the gate on the sub, this meant that when a kick followed a snare it was a big subby one, but when it was only a kick drum it was just the transient part.

I'm planning to use this to design a track where everything has an effect on something else, or triggers something else. Hopefully it'll be chaos, but understandably so. Almost like generative music I guess.

Also, regarding the performance aspect. On my dx9 yesterday I made a patch using all the operators, where 2 were set so legato playing was a musical harmonic, and stacato playing was inharmonic. Before this I'd never been that creative with envelopes.

I'm curious how you are making the triggering happen (what DAW?). I like to use the FL Studio peak controller not to duck anything or activate an EQ, but in the opposite way--so for example when a kick hits it lets through a bit of a long vinyl noise sample that I've got looping. Sounds different than just layering a bit of crackle with the kick. You get all kinds of variation at little cost in time/effort. I'm sure one could use this reverse side chaining idea for all kinds of other things.

fragments wrote:Interesting. Subscribing to watch. I'll have something to add at some point, but I want to make it quality.

To add a bit to what you are talking about. I love loading like 3-4 patches into a group in Maschine with different feels to them--something plucky-ish, something with 100% sustain, slow attack, etc. And just write one melody with those instruments. I usually bus process these instruments inside Maschine, using bus processing, reverbs, filters and velocity I control their position in the mix. Then I send them all out to my mixer to a stereo channel. Then it's the Joe Meek MC2 optical compressor on that insert. Maybe side chained to something.

Lol, I've been playing around with almost same thing. It works wonders with phases that change note duration and hit on and off the side chain, that way almost every note has a different attack and decay. Just thought its crazy someone else was playing this too.

efence wrote:

fragments wrote:Interesting. Subscribing to watch. I'll have something to add at some point, but I want to make it quality.

To add a bit to what you are talking about. I love loading like 3-4 patches into a group in Maschine with different feels to them--something plucky-ish, something with 100% sustain, slow attack, etc. And just write one melody with those instruments. I usually bus process these instruments inside Maschine, using bus processing, reverbs, filters and velocity I control their position in the mix. Then I send them all out to my mixer to a stereo channel. Then it's the Joe Meek MC2 optical compressor on that insert. Maybe side chained to something.

Lol, I've been playing around with almost same thing. It works wonders with phases that change note duration and hit on and off the side chain, that way almost every note has a different attack and decay. Just thought its crazy someone else was playing this too.

Yea. I stumbled on this accidentally. I just happened to route all my synth patches to one stereo channel on my mixer (OTB) and was playing with ways to "gel" the everything in the channel together and it ended up sounding really cool.

fragments wrote: I'm curious how you are making the triggering happen (what DAW?). I like to use the FL Studio peak controller not to duck anything or activate an EQ, but in the opposite way--so for example when a kick hits it lets through a bit of a long vinyl noise sample that I've got looping. Sounds different than just layering a bit of crackle with the kick. You get all kinds of variation at little cost in time/effort. I'm sure one could use this reverse side chaining idea for all kinds of other things.

I do love the possibility of the crackles!

There's probably an easier way, but I do it using a chain of fx in Reaper.

The Reagate has a Send Midi setting, then I have a midi randomizer (its a little plugin the changes monophonic midi notes up or down by up to a fifth)

Then I have a Chordizer, which turns it into a 9th chord (and I could probably set it to a different chord depending on a different parameter - I've not tried, just thinking out loud)

Then an Arp, then a synth.

I'm not near my computer else I'd upload a little project and some samples to show it off!

I use the release setting on the gate to get the midi sequence to a length I like.

It can sound like a strange bitty reverb, or a definite sequence

^That's really cool man. I'll have to look more into routing this kind of triggering in Maschine...I'm sure it's possible.

I've got one of these that I'm gonna use for automating parameters while playing.


Nice thread btw.

outbound wrote:Yes, this! Needs to be more focus on how to make a song rather than how to make sounds already done

This! I think developing tracks/arrangement/workflow is one the most important parts of production and is the least covered part of it online in my experience. Great thread idea!

It's one of those things that can't really be taught. It's much easier to learn how to imitate the technical side of things.

SunkLo wrote:It's one of those things that can't really be taught. It's much easier to learn how to imitate the technical side of things.

Yeah but it's still cool to discuss workflow, the thought process of choosing elements and how they'll develop through a track and how you get better at element selection. More just like experienced people explaining their thought process and workflows, when I've found this sort of content online it's always been really useful info that I can apply to my own way of working.

Oh totally. It's just not something you see in a lot of tutorials or articles because there's no one right way. Getting insight into other producers' processes is really valuable.

Personally, I'd like to see videos of some bedroom studios and some insight into part of their process. The CM Masterclasses are fun and all...but I kind of don't care anymore...not that I haven't learned from them, but once you watch a few of them those guys aren't really sharing anything terribly interesting or that you can't find elsewhere. (I think the last one I watched I only rated because Phaeleh uses the same soft EQ that I do and we start beats in a similar fashion).

I'm much more curious about what ya'll are doing in the studio.

Great thread idea.
Pertaining to legend4ry's post:
Arpeggios are great for de-emphasizing the (?)dissonance of chords that have half step and whole steps intervals, like the B and C in a C7 chord.
What do you mean by single sustained shots?

SunkLo, I've been looking for something like that but just the expression pedal and not hte stompbox style switches. I can't seem to find just one expression pedal and not the extra stuff I don't need. I've considered maybe getting a midi controller with knobs and figuring out a way to make my own pedal to turn the knobs. I'm not that handy with building stuff though, so I don't know how well that would turn out...

If you've got a midi controller with a 1/4" input on it you might be able to just buy an expression pedal. My pedal board has a few jacks to expand it with more pedals and my guitar effects rack has some too.

Hmm, my controller only has a 1/4" for sustain and I have a sustain pedal for it. With that, it's just 0 or 127(on/off), but if I had an expression pedal, I could get the full range?

Not sure. My MPK has 2 footswitch jacks and an expression pedal jack. Try googling your controller to see if anyone's done it.

lol when I try searching, I just get a lot of results relating to an older firmware issue.

I thought of something I guess fits in with this thread. I was messing around with my interface and a mic and limiting the bejesus out of the signal while monitoring it in headphones(fun stuff! you'll notice sounds you might not have heard before, or hear your own breathing louder than your ears could hear alone. maybe this is how hearing aids work lol). I was using 3 instances of the George Yohng W1 Limiter turned all the way down/up(the threshold does automatic makeup gain). I noticed that when I turned the gain on the preamp all the way up, I was getting more noise and the noise was quite a bit nastier than with the gain turned up halfway. So I did a little experiment. I put the mic underneath a pillow on my bed to minimize the noise from the mic and I tried out all 8 xlr pre's on my interface turned all the way up. The last 3 on the right side sounded a lot better noise-wise, for whatever reason.
I know this probably amounts to very little when I'm not compressing things like crazy, but it's nice to know how to squeeze out the best signal to noise ratio with what I've got.