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Hey guys, just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on making a track sound full, and big. When I've finished a track I load a spectrum analyzer on the master and see if I can pinpoint what parts need doing up, this guy for example:

Soundcloud

All of his tracks sound really full, it's like you can't even hear it but theres something taking up all of that empty space, my tracks feel so empty, any advice would be great! Thanks a bunch.

Vocals and bass are good but the drums sound terribly dull to me.
To get things fuller just pay attention and listen.
He has playing together sub drums bass and underneath a melody. Just watch the spectrum and try to fill every gap.
If a sound is not playing in that moment use another sound.
You could also try on a send some little pitchshifting +12 semitones.
The part that gives you the fullness is the highs so fill that spectrum, the lows you gotta keep em not very busy.
It's a matter of the speaker cone motion

It has no sub bass lol

But back to your question:
- Use many reverb + use many instruments.

mromgwtf wrote:It has no sub bass lol

But back to your question:
- Use many reverb + use many instruments.

plus the total lack of punch on the drums XD

mromgwtf wrote:It has no sub bass lol

But back to your question:
- Use many reverb + use many instruments.

Yes it does?

I'm always curious when this comes up--are people actually telling you, your tracks or too empty or do just fill compelled to fill the whole spectrum in your tracks for every moment of the track?

My suggestion would be to not goof up your arrangement by adding more instruments. Just use simple pads, mixed low. EQ the shit out of them so the don't mess with anything important in your track.

Also, trust your ears. Fuck the visual crutches. What does your track sound like? Does it sound empty or does it look empty? Some E'd out twat at the club won't have a spectral analyzer to judge your track with, man.

he has an arp in the background when it drops

blinkesko wrote:he has an arp in the background when it drops

lmfao. this is only funny if you've read that thread where this is revealed as a "secret".

This is based strictly on trial and error and some may not agree.

Sidechained white noise, solid pads and arps help me fill out the sounds. Pay close attention to between 70 hz -250 hz as this freq can really help fill out the sound, but make sure you don't overdo it as it starts to sound quite muddy if you do.

I find that one of the biggest culprits of a "Not Full" or "Muddy" mix is due to incorrect pan and velocity positions and not EQ or compression. If you have the volume and pan right, given that all instruments don't share similar timbres (Sound, octave, frequency, etc), you'd be suprised how good your mix really is. I personally EQ last, after volume and panning is perfect (well as close to perfect as my skills allows )

As far as adding the spectrum analyzer at the end, there's nothing wrong with it but personally, I think it's counterproductive to fill out the sound this way because if you do this at the end, the damage has already been done and you'll spend countless hours trying fix one thing at the expense of another and endless adjust and fatigue your ears before you get the mix you want. I personally mix at a very low level due to a rule I heard when I first started producing, if a mix has good dynamics at low volumes it will sound amazing when it's cranked. but this rule doesn't apply when it's reversed. If you mix loud, chances are it will only sound good when it's loud

In addition, I find that I'm always boosting if I'm trying to carve out space for a specific instrument via EQ the master track. In most cases, you should use EQ to remove freqs rather than boost. Rule of thumb I use Boost wide and cut narrow!

you don't NEED to have something at every frequency on the spectrum. nothing wrong with having some empty areas. nobody's gonna notice. Don't add unnecessary noise for the sole reason of filling out the spectrum. If it sounds empty, then sure go for it, but if it sounds good then you are not required to fill it out.

Also, I usually find that when my mixes sound empty, it's because there is no sub below my midrange bass.

mthrfnk wrote:

blinkesko wrote:he has an arp in the background when it drops

lmfao. this is only funny if you've read that thread where this is revealed as a "secret".

Haha yeah

dubunked wrote:you don't NEED to have something at every frequency on the spectrum. nothing wrong with having some empty areas. nobody's gonna notice. Don't add unnecessary noise for the sole reason of filling out the spectrum. If it sounds empty, then sure go for it, but if it sounds good then you are not required to fill it out.

Well done minimal tunes are some of my favorite things in electronic music.

Yeah, dungeon is an entire subgenre that has a gap in the upper midrange frequencies.

If your using Massive a lot don't forget to use the "unision" and "dimension expander" parameters to make a bass/sound feel bigger. The white noise parameter is also pretty good.

You don't have to fill every available space, though some styles call for it more than others.

You can layer sounds. Adding pads might help, but be sure to be a little heavy handed with an EQ to cut out frequencies that aren't needed. But there are a few ways you can fill up space with the sounds you have before you decide to busy it up with more instruments.

You might want to go track by track and see if any melodic elements fill the spectrum better when you shift them an octave up or down. Or you might want to double an instrument with a copy of a pattern an octave up or down. (remember you might need to lower the instruments volume to retain its perceived loudness when you double things)

A couple people have already mentioned reverb, and it's true, time based effects can quickly fill up gaps in a mix. Apply delay and reverb carefully, though, you can very quickly muddy it up if you go overboard. Try using send channels with reverb or delay with the dry off, so that you can go in with an EQ and cut out frequencies that you don't need, or are too present.

You can also reach for any number of harmonic excitation effects. Distortion, Saturation, Tape Emulation, Exciters, even amp and cabinet emulators can all do wonders to add harmonic content to a a sound. You'll need to experiment to find out which ones work best for what elements. Like with reverb and delay, you can send the sound to an insert where you can EQ the signal before it hits the exciter, and after. Also try mixing in the excitation with the dry signal. And remember that you may need to turn down the dry, wet, or both signals to keep that particular sound at the same perceived loudness.

peaka wrote:Rule of thumb I use Boost wide and cut narrow!

Now that's interesting... My rule of thumb is usually "avoid boosting, prefer cutting. Narrow as you head down in frequency, wide as you head up in frequency (since frequency scale is a logarithmic function)"

My rule of thumb when it comes to eq'ing is 'do what sounds good' :p

All three of those are good rules of thumb. I've read the same article that peaka presumably did about boost wide, cut narrow. It's because narrow boosts and wide cuts sound unnatural to the listener. Think about it. A sharp boost of a small range of frequencies will make them stick out and sound unbalanced compared to the other frequencies and harmonics that make up the sound. And a wide cut will only leave some of frequencies/harmonics, so the instrument will sound like it's missing part of it and as a result will sound unnatural to the human ear. I'll see if I can find the article and post it here.

EDIT: here is the article: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/01/31/e ... oost-wide/

dubunked wrote:All three of those are good rules of thumb. I've read the same article that peaka presumably did about boost wide, cut narrow. It's because narrow boosts and wide cuts sound unnatural to the listener. Think about it. A sharp boost of a small range of frequencies will make them stick out and sound unbalanced compared to the other frequencies and harmonics that make up the sound. And a wide cut will only leave some of frequencies/harmonics, so the instrument will sound like it's missing part of it and as a result will sound unnatural to the human ear. I'll see if I can find the article and post it here.

EDIT: here is the article: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/01/31/e ... oost-wide/

Thanks for that.

Here's another good one that covers mostly the same: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/articles/eq.htm I can't seem to find any articles discussing the "logarithmicness" of frequency and how it applies to EQ'ing.

blinkesko wrote:My rule of thumb when it comes to eq'ing is 'do what sounds good' :p

That's like a blanket Rule #1 for all things.

If you've "finished" the tune but it still sounds empty, try playing some things an octave lower. Like your leads or even drumhits. Don't have them hitting too low, in the sub or anything or even too loud in the mix, but that's a mad easy way to make a track sound bigger imoooo. Remove some of the higher frequencies from those though.

rockonin wrote:If your using Massive a lot don't forget to use the "unision" and "dimension expander" parameters to make a bass/sound feel bigger. The white noise parameter is also pretty good.

I find those make tunes sound tinny tbh. Best way to add width to me is some mild delay, chorus/flanger/phaser and a well EQ'd reverb bus with short reverb.

People mistake tracks sounding empty or lacklustre when most of the time they're just not very interesting to listen to. I used to make the mistake of trying to cram so much into a single track to fill up everything, now I still tend to layer the shit out of stuff but I try to make my sounds sound better by making them more interesting, a good mix will also help a track sound better - especially if it's more minimal.

The track you posted has a lot of upper midrange content and it's quite musical. Try layering more things into your track, being aware of what space they take up in the mix. Make sure you have a coherent bassline in your tracks, and try to mix the sub as best you can. Think about using other stuff such as foley or sample instruments rather than just synths and drums. Modulate everything you can, if you have a pad use a flanger on it, if you have a synth sweep a filter over it etc. If your synths sound a bit empty make sure they have a coherent bass layered underneath and if needed layer in extra frequencies using upper octaves or layering notes in chords etc. you could pan these around too to get that super wide and powerful sound.