Dubstepforum.com

Been a while since I made an actual thread so....before I start this thread I know a lot of people dislike his stuff because it's brickwalled to shit or alternatively it's not dubstep and too mainstream however his new track to me sounds pretty awesome (imo) if just for the musical aspect:
Soundcloud

The reason I made this thread is two fold,
Firstly: was analysing the track in FL and it looks a little weird:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/21m5l4g.jpg
(can't embed, too wide)

A lot of the mix seems to be clipped at ~16kHz, yet there's still little frills that go up and beyond 20kHz, is this due to mp3 compression or has he simply sharply cut most of the mix? (I'm analysing the 320kbps copy direct from his online store btw) and can anyone explain why you'd let elements go beyond 20kHz?

Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

mthrfnk wrote:
Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

Are you using a Fruity Peak Controller to control to the sidechaining? It's more precise then creating the automation clip and drawing in points. If you're using Fruity Limiter to control the sidechaining, make sure the attack is set to zero and use a very quick attack time and a slow look-ahead.

azuk wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:
Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

It's more precise then creating the automation clip and drawing in points.

You could have 0 delay and control it 100% if you drew them in so that's not true. It is a lot easier and a lot less time consuming though, I don't know anyone who would have the patience to draw in all their kicks (House might be easy as it's 4 to the floor though so just one clip copied)

azuk wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:
Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

Are you using a Fruity Peak Controller to control to the sidechaining? It's more precise then creating the automation clip and drawing in points. If you're using Fruity Limiter to control the sidechaining, make sure the attack is set to zero and use a very quick attack time and a slow look-ahead.

I don't use the limiter or a compressor, like I said I manually automate the volume.
Why is peak controller more precise?

I think Fruity Limiter would be much more precise than Fruity Balance for sidechaining, you really need a release knob to make sure the sound doesn't get ducked for too long

Benji wrote:I think Fruity Limiter would be much more precise than Fruity Balance for sidechaining, you really need a release knob to make sure the sound doesn't get ducked for too long

Fruity Balance can't side chain on it's own you use something like Fruity Peak Controller to automate Fruity Balance, you can set release, tension, starting volume, how much it is ducked etc in there

mthrfnk wrote:

azuk wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:
Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

Are you using a Fruity Peak Controller to control to the sidechaining? It's more precise then creating the automation clip and drawing in points. If you're using Fruity Limiter to control the sidechaining, make sure the attack is set to zero and use a very quick attack time and a slow look-ahead.

I don't use the limiter or a compressor, like I said I manually automate the volume.
Why is peak controller more precise?

The Fruity Peak Controller's essentially maps the output level to exactly the same level of the kick. You can also change tension and other parameters in there.

I wouldn't manually automate the volume levels, Fruity Limiter (to me) is more efficient, and is more precise, algorithms will always be more accurate than manually drawing in points.

azuk wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:

azuk wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:
Secondly I was looking at the file in Audacity and his kicks and snares perfectly eliminate the rest of the mix via sidechaining... I know he uses volume/EQ automation vs. compression - something I've been doing for a while, but recently I've been finding that I can't get my automation to respond quick enough in FL, if that makes sense... it's as if there's a small latency that makes the sidechain duck drag on too long or the attack of the volume envelope isn't sharp enough. I use Fruity Balance for this which although basic as fuck does work, but I was looking for any tips on really getting the sidechain as sharp and precise as possible this since I know a lot of people sidechain in a similar way.

Thanks

Are you using a Fruity Peak Controller to control to the sidechaining? It's more precise then creating the automation clip and drawing in points. If you're using Fruity Limiter to control the sidechaining, make sure the attack is set to zero and use a very quick attack time and a slow look-ahead.

I don't use the limiter or a compressor, like I said I manually automate the volume.
Why is peak controller more precise?

The Fruity Peak Controller's essentially maps the output level to exactly the same level of the kick. You can also change tension and other parameters in there.

I wouldn't manually automate the volume levels, Fruity Limiter (to me) is more efficient, and is more precise, algorithms will always be more accurate than manually drawing in points.

That's not true, drawing in points is as precise as you can make it, with enough resolution you could make it perfect. The plugin has to have some delay (no matter how small it is it's still there it can't read in a peak and instantaneously duck)

Edit: Fruity Limiter has look a head which I guess would make it just as accurate as drawing them in (if you do it properly), but seeing how he wanted volume automation not compression still useless

Brothulhu wrote:

Benji wrote:I think Fruity Limiter would be much more precise than Fruity Balance for sidechaining, you really need a release knob to make sure the sound doesn't get ducked for too long

Fruity Balance can't side chain on it's own you use something like Fruity Peak Controller to automate Fruity Balance, you can set release, tension, starting volume, how much it is ducked etc in there

That's pretty interesting, I guess the Peak Controller is really useful, but I never liked the GUI

Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

mthrfnk wrote:Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

Set up peak controller to duck the volume then record the automation and edit away might cut a bit of the process off for you

Love that track!

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

Set up peak controller to duck the volume then record the automation and edit away might cut a bit of the process off for you

Hmm good idea, I'll play with this.

Any ideas about the 16kHz question guys?

mthrfnk wrote:

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

Set up peak controller to duck the volume then record the automation and edit away might cut a bit of the process off for you

Hmm good idea, I'll play with this.

Any ideas about the 16kHz question guys?

A 320 mp3 cuts off around 20kHz I believe, he probably jut put a low passfilter around 16kHz and as filters are a slope there is still some content above it
Might be wrong but it's my best guess

If you let elements go beyond 20kHz your track might repel the mosquitoes around you. High shelf ~21kHz +30dB = profit.

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

Set up peak controller to duck the volume then record the automation and edit away might cut a bit of the process off for you

Hmm good idea, I'll play with this.

Any ideas about the 16kHz question guys?

A 320 mp3 cuts off around 20kHz I believe, he probably jut put a low passfilter around 16kHz and as filters are a slope there is still some content above it
Might be wrong but it's my best guess

Yeah but that's the thing - it looks like some elements (mainly the main chords/midrange) have been brickwall cut at 16k while other elements are let through over 20k... there's literally a visible "block of sound" for the main choruses, if you're going to do that why then let elements go above 20k? I just wondered idk weird question to get hung up on... haha.

Lol Icetickle... there must be a reason, or not

mthrfnk wrote:

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:

Brothulhu wrote:

mthrfnk wrote:Hmm thanks guys, I specifically don't use the Limiter, I don't like how it sounds - I don't want to use compression to duck the mix.

I'll give Peak Controller a shot, I used to use it to sidechain as you've described but switched to manual automation for a while because you could do so much with manually drawn automation (yes it's tiresome, but I want the "perfect" mix )

Set up peak controller to duck the volume then record the automation and edit away might cut a bit of the process off for you

Hmm good idea, I'll play with this.

Any ideas about the 16kHz question guys?

A 320 mp3 cuts off around 20kHz I believe, he probably jut put a low passfilter around 16kHz and as filters are a slope there is still some content above it
Might be wrong but it's my best guess

Yeah but that's the thing - it looks like some elements (mainly the main chords/midrange) have been brickwall cut at 16k while other elements are let through over 20k... there's literally a visible "block of sound" for the main choruses, if you're going to do that why then let elements go above 20k? I just wondered idk weird question to get hung up on... haha.

Lol Icetickle... there must be a reason, or not

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 146AAKRUF0

Ain't no joke!

I'm not sure about the things above 20k, but any kind of brick wall cut at 16k is due to mp3 compression. Madeon certainly would not employ such a drastic cut on purpose.

I don't understand how such a drastic change in the frequency spectrum from the mp3 conversion would not destroy the song.

It wouldn't, unless you have a lower bit rate (192 I think) the cut would not be at 16kHz...