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There are so many people out there with a billion different levels of relative pitch, some are supposedly masters, some can only recognize some intervals and arpeggios, and some struggle with the difference between major thirds and minor thirds.

Do people ever finish ear training? as students we get this power-hungry idea in our heads that if we practice every day for 4 years we will be able to recognize every chord progression possible, and every crazy arpeggio atonal melody, we will have amazing workflow because of it, and infinite inspiration as well. Anyone who reaches it is like a god in my mind, a completely enlightened monk of music

however,
I've been banging my head against the wall with this stuff for 2 years, i don't think the mastery i envisioned is possible in one lifetime, i sing 45-60 minutes a day and still have yet to recognize anything from a song on the radio or something practical like that.

-Is it actually actually possible for older people to learn relative pitch in 4 years of 60 minutes a day? has anyone met one?
- Is the best way to achieve this still by singing intervals and chords? I use this thing as an outline http://www.perfectpitch.com/relativepitch.htm, but its sketchy because they also sell a "perfect pitch course" which is a complete scam because its impossible.

Thanks for any advice!

I believe anyone can develop relative pitch with hard work, and as you said there are a million levels of relative pitch. In my mind to master it would be hardest with vocals.

A couple things...


1) No one ever "finishes" their ear training, the same way no musician ever finishes learning their instrument. Even when Pablo Casals was 90, and for decades had been known as one of the world's greatest cellists, he still practiced several hours a day. When he was asked WHY, he simply replied "Because I think I am making some progress".


2) 60 minutes per day (or 2-4 years) is not that much of a time investment as an adult. It is true that children pick things up much quicker and much more naturally... because as an adult, much of us is formed already.. ie the way we learn, the way he hear, our physicality, etc. That isn't to say adults can't learn, but rather, it takes more effort. 60 mins per day for several years is usually where most kids will start to develop their ear... but if an adult hasn't had any musical training, it will probably take them more.


3) As for "What is Having Relative Pitch Really Like"? Well - it is handy being able to transcribe almost any melody I have in my head to my cello, or keyboard or write it out on staff paper. Unlike Perfect Pitch, I don't always know what the exact notes are, but I know what the intervallic relationships between the notes are... so given whatever starting point, I know what the rest of the notes are.

It is also handy to not be shackled to a specific pitch. My brother has perfect pitch - which certainly has some advantages - but also has the disadvantages that when he has had to play with a piano that is slightly out of tune to the concrete pitch in his ear. In his head, he is having to transpose the whole time... and it drives him crazy.

But like any skill - ear training has to be constantly maintained. When I was at school and practicing cello 6-10 hours per day and completely focused on my playing and ear... I could hear a pitch differential of just 3 cents. Now, I am closer to 4 or 5 cents. Like my cello playing, if I haven't actively worked on my ear training for a while... it starts to get a little soft. Think of it like a really good car. It takes a sizeable investment (money for the car, time for the ear)... If you do nothing else after getting the good car/ear... you will still always have a good car/ear. However, if you want the car to run at its optimum you still have to regularly maintain it. Same goes with a trained ear.

Perfect pitch is actually absolute pitch, which is possible.

I sometimes know which the next note I want is, like a major second down, which actually does speed things up. I often just fuck around to find a note, though.

I learnt relative pitch on my guitar so I could tune it without a tuner. It's quite easy, but not intuitive as you have to practise without looking at anything and can feel hopeless as you're not looking anything to guide you. Human minds are pretty dead set on visual stimuli...

all i know is that i sing like an angel

test recordings wrote:I learnt relative pitch on my guitar so I could tune it without a tuner. It's quite easy, but not intuitive as you have to practise without looking at anything and can feel hopeless as you're not looking anything to guide you. Human minds are pretty dead set on visual stimuli...

Well you don't really need relative pitch to tune your guitar without a tuner. Although the first string (bass E) has to be tuned properly for this. You just play together the 5th fret on the first string and open string on the next string. You know what I'm talking about. You just hear these string going unison and you know they are tuned properly.

I didnt know it was something you could train. Ive always been able to pick chords and tune a guitar by ear, when we were practicing intervals at school I would always try and guess the root note as well to make it more interesting. Id be right about 90% of the time. Id be interested to know if perfect pitch is achievable and how people go about achieving it.

Relative who? I beeze just pusheen da keeyz on dah midi keyboardszsz.

mromgwtf wrote:

test recordings wrote:I learnt relative pitch on my guitar so I could tune it without a tuner. It's quite easy, but not intuitive as you have to practise without looking at anything and can feel hopeless as you're not looking anything to guide you. Human minds are pretty dead set on visual stimuli...

Well you don't really need relative pitch to tune your guitar without a tuner. Although the first string (bass E) has to be tuned properly for this. You just play together the 5th fret on the first string and open string on the next string. You know what I'm talking about. You just hear these string going unison and you know they are tuned properly.

Yeah true, I must've just memorised the pitches then and I did what you talked about as well.

4 semesters of "aural skills here" (passed 3)

when I started i could barely read music. the best advice i got was to associate a certain melody with a pitch interval.

so: perfect 5th - star wars (dun DAAAAA)
perfect 4th - here comes the bride (bridal march, whatever)
tritone - the simpsons (purposeful, im sure

then you just drill on them until you have them in your head, start focusing on major 3rds, minor 3rds, maj and min 6ths, 7ths, etc.

eventually you're able to hear a note and vocalize an octatonic scale based off the 3rd of that note... but it takes time. from what i've read and head, having "perfect pitch" actually makes it harder to understand the solfege of relative pitch.

i can pick out shit in songs/tunes, but i'm a little rusty now. I suppose it's weird to be able to know where a melody is likely to go, and then be happily surprised when the 'composer' chooses another direction. The result of all of this training has led me to moments of actually being moved by unexpected melodies. Relative pitch is being able to understand the language of music when it's talking to you, i guess

Sure_Fire wrote:I didnt know it was something you could train. Ive always been able to pick chords and tune a guitar by ear, when we were practicing intervals at school I would always try and guess the root note as well to make it more interesting. Id be right about 90% of the time. Id be interested to know if perfect pitch is achievable and how people go about achieving it.

Perfect (absolute) pitch is a skill best acquired and developed when you are very young. If your anecdote is anything to go by though then you have some skill with it already.