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Hey all,

It seems that as time as gone on my ideas and experimentations in sound design within my tracks has gotten better and so I'm finding it easier and easier to sculpt the basslines and know how to make the sounds I can hear for a melody in my head.

However, I find myself struggling more and more from a compositional perspective - In some tunes I can find that I'm doing alright with one melodic device but it's more that I struggle with constructing two or three quality melodic elements that work together cohesively. In others, I find that my "delivery" or progression is either too slow or stale (cheesy and predictable from my perspective) and I don't know how to make it better.

I find that in my earlier tracks, my progression was good and I was able to construct some good chord patterns - am I just trying to force the matter or over-think things now? I have a feeling that I'm just psyching myself out with it because it's bugging me that much.

Any thoughts/tips from you lot? Any advice on inspiring myself again?

I tend to find that it takes me 4 or 5 track attempts before I hit something that really resonates with me. There's two takes I have on this:

1) Complete the track anyway, even if you don't like it (you never know what happens as you play around). Just don't get caught up on one element.
2) Experiment by limiting yourself. Use only one synth, just use your native daw plugins, just use 1 sample to create a whole track.etc. Imposing these technical limitations spurs on creative pathways that you wouldn't have found otherwise. My latest track, I built the basses off a single sine wave (check the wip thread). Before that, for 12 months - I limited myself solely to Ableton products and plugins (allowing me to focus more easily).

When you get stuck, I find it's best to put yourself in a box and find your way out.

I find that if I go with Method #1, very rarely there will be something that just clicks and I know what to do to make me like the track but more often than not, I will just gradually hate the tune more and more as I go and so I'll be less inclined to put proper effort in; I'm kinda OCD with how things sound (both sonically and melodically - kinda the reason why I tend to mix in key when I DJ because jarring key changes bug me) and so every time I would listen back to the track it'd just be like pulling out one of my pubic hairs until I can't physically stand to listen to it anymore lol

Method #2 is interesting however but I don't think I could consistently make tune after tune with that kinda method without mixing things up a little Although that said, I have got Synplant so I might try making a whole tune with that and see how we go :3

Dub Fiend wrote:I find that if I go with Method #1, very rarely there will be something that just clicks and I know what to do to make me like the track but more often than not, I will just gradually hate the tune more and more as I go and so I'll be less inclined to put proper effort in; I'm kinda OCD with how things sound (both sonically and melodically - kinda the reason why I tend to mix in key when I DJ because jarring key changes bug me) and so every time I would listen back to the track it'd just be like pulling out one of my pubic hairs until I can't physically stand to listen to it anymore lol

Method #2 is interesting however but I don't think I could consistently make tune after tune with that kinda method without mixing things up a little Although that said, I have got Synplant so I might try making a whole tune with that and see how we go :3

Method #1 isn't there to write a good track, it's there to finish it. Sometimes you literally just should finish it off and walk away. You still learn heaps from the experience.

#2 isn't how I always do things, but I find most of the time when I get stuck, it's a great way to move forward as I end up discovering something I never knew before. My current tune is testament to that fact - the basses are the best I've ever made and they all started from a single sine wave. I never would have encountered that if I didn't limit myself to the Analog synth in Ableton

And my last point - chasing perfection is the epitome of unproductiveness. Learn to just wrap it up if it's not working, but it's best to do that with point #1, because you still learn stuff. If you constantly get caught up, you'll never get albums done.

What do you do then if you get a good idea and it starts well but then get like half-way through writing the tune and then decide it sounds shit? Would you double-back and start again or plow on?

Because I would almost certainly start again every time...

I usually leave it and start over. Quite often I'll come back to it in a few weeks time and turn it into what it was meant to be.

I also tend to get the sounds and general layout done first, before focusing on individual sounds and polishing them up. That way I get the idea down, then focus on the details. If you focus on the details too early, you lose your momentum and energy.

Get one idea and fuck with it. The Beatles often wrote songs around one chord and look what they came up with

I can't tell you how gold the advice given by subfect is....

When you feel stuck or stale in anything, restrict the scope that your working in and you'll find yourself moving forward.

And as a side note, this principle touches on a very important aspect of life that we are getting away from as technology continues to advance.....jussayin

I agree with you there Toolman, it's always best to focus if the picture isn't clear (to make a wide and somewhat cheesy sweeping statement)... I do think however that it's not that I've got too much choice in terms of instruments though; I tend to use a core base of VSTs rather than having like a million to pick from but scope is something that I hadn't massively thought of and it is something that I could still do with considering... maybe I could work on a tune with pure samples (808 loop for sub, drum hits and messing with audio effects to get decent synth sounds etc...) or something else as a way to drive creativity.

I do think that maybe I'm expecting too much of myself though... I listen to a lot of the producers I aspire to be (Reso, The Widdler and many, many others) and so when I write music maybe I'm unconsciously expecting my music to be of the same insane level of quality... how do you overcome that?

In all seriousness, stop trying to be like them. It's impossible to be like your favourite artists, so don't make sounds and try to align it with what you hear - it's a short trip to a frustrated outcome and anger tantrums (believe me, until I got past this point I nearly gave up on music about 10 times!).

Instead, just focus on what you like to hear, without comparison. Synthesis takes a long time to get right (I've been doing this now going on 5 years and am only just starting to make the sounds I've been dying to make when I started).

Save the sounds you like, work on them on future projects - eventually you'll get there. This is also why I reckon you should limit yourself. My best sounds came out of just that approach. The most important thing, is to save synth presets and FX chains you create. Ableton has a great function called the instrument rack, which allows you to save an entire instrument and all its FX for future use - great when you stumble upon that chest-rattling sound!

I'm the same sometimes with new tunes. Sounding stale or too done or cheesy or whatever and comparing them to other stuff i've made way back. familiarity breeds contempt. With me I think its partially forgetting the creative process i went through to make the older songs and being like "wtf how did i make this?"
You just gotta switch it up! If you usually start by writing chord proggresions, try starting with drums or a lead and letting that dictate the way you build up the tune. Or try writing the entire song on a piano/keyboard so that your progressions are on point before you actually make the tune.

Its hard though. Sometimes if i'm really stuck I try and make something I've never done before. Like house or electro swing or dnb - but not in a "dubsteppy" way - I try and properly embrace the techniques of the genre (different sorts of arrangements, sampling, cutting up breaks etc.) Even if you don't like what you make you'll probably learn something new that you can bring into your "normal" music.

Don't use more than one MIDI pattern per instrument or sample--get out of loop mode. Dont worry about writing instrument parts so that everything fits neatly into 4, 8, or 16 (edit) bars. Let things overlap.

You dont need to do this all the time for club music. But I think one bad limiation dance producers impose on themselves is thinking strictly in terms of loops. Having an element that progresses over 9 bars will force you to be creative with how all the other elements relate to it.

fragments wrote:Don't use more than one MIDI pattern per instrument or sample--get out of loop mode. Dont worry about writing instrument parts so that everything fits neatly into 4, 8, or 6 bars. Let things overlap.

You dont need to do this all the time for club music. But I think one bad limiation dance producers impose on themselves is thinking strictly in terms of loops. Having an element that progresses over 9 bars will force you to be creative with how all the other elements relate to it.

This is why I despise using the session view for producing in ableton live - it breeds exactly that form of production which is all bad. Good advice.

subfect wrote:

fragments wrote:Don't use more than one MIDI pattern per instrument or sample--get out of loop mode. Dont worry about writing instrument parts so that everything fits neatly into 4, 8, or 16 bars. Let things overlap.

You dont need to do this all the time for club music. But I think one bad limiation dance producers impose on themselves is thinking strictly in terms of loops. Having an element that progresses over 9 bars will force you to be creative with how all the other elements relate to it.

This is why I despise using the session view for producing in ableton live - it breeds exactly that form of production which is all bad. Good advice.

Yes. I feel like the Playlist in FL studio encourages loopitis as well. At least they finally 86'd the pattern blocks. I'm a die hard FL Studio user...but its fairly loop oriented.

Yes, glad to hear hate for producing on session view lol, only time when that shoukd be used is if youre performing live or something

Added this thread to the The Motivation/Creativity/Inspiration/Writers Block Thread™.

I got a tun of stuff to say, but am too busy working on a track.

nowaysj wrote:I got a tun of stuff to say, but am too busy working on a track.

Don't know whether troll or serious.

Both!

Really was working really hard, and essentially wanted to book mark.

BUT also the implication is to just keep working.

+++++++++++++

And really what I want to say...

Gotta go, really do want to talk about something

nowaysj wrote:Both!

Really was working really hard, and essentially wanted to book mark.

BUT also the implication is to just keep working.

+++++++++++++

And really what I want to say...

Gotta go, really do want to talk about something

Don't wanna interrupt you if you're on a roll though man Bust out those tunes sir!