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Following on from some thoughts posted in Grand's scene thread, it occurred to me that what I feel is missing in a lot of dubstep is that dancey twitch that got me into it in the first place, not just the 2 step of Benny Ill and El-b, but the breaks driven sounds of Darqwan, Hype and Zinc back in the day. To my mind the reason I'm not feeling a lot of the new stuff is that heavy boom bap, 8th note wobble (or sub) hitting on the beat and what I view as a serious lack of the groove which drew me to the sound in the first place.

There's producers out there that seem to be able to do this and have the required bass weight (Reso, Elemental, TRG, Burial, Mala, Kode 9, Ramadanman, Sully, Untold, some of Skream's tunes, etc) but it seems to me that it's gradually losing it's importance in the sound from the tunes I've been hearing lately.

I know people say that it's in the hats, or the riddims in the bass, but I'm not convinced (I've tried, really I have) and personally I've been finding a lot of the rhythms rather pedestrian of late. It's just my opinion but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this and whether you like the music with less emphasis on beats or not.

I know what you mean.

Listening to Broken Hearts remix last night on the tube got me thinking the same thing... His drums are just lovely.

I like the other stuff too. As long as there is some depth in other areas of the tune.

I love Coki, dont get me wrong. he makes me brock more than most

but he does have one groove, one set of drum sounds, and always mixes em dead low!

Halfstep can have groove to it.

2step just has that bounce to it though, much more lively party music to my mind.

It's- as always- about variety.

I liked all those tracks that were breaks heavy aswell...now I don't hear much which resembles the old Zinc/Dekline/Domu stuff

Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places?????



I know I do some broken stuff with breaks but there just a bit too slow for some to play within dubstep but I might look at trying to speed some of my newer stuff up without losing that shufflin' vibe that I like.

(it's harder than it sounds)

Kode 9 has a few trax that are perfect examples of this though...9 Samurai/Den of Drumz etc... bad bad trax!!!

Nubian Minds wrote:I liked all those tracks that were breaks heavy aswell...now I don't hear much which resembles the old Zinc/Dekline/Domu stuff

Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places?????



I know I do some broken stuff with breaks but there just a bit too slow for some to play within dubstep but I might look at trying to speed some of my newer stuff up without losing that shufflin' vibe that I like.

(it's harder than it sounds)

Know what you mean mate, a load of breaks I love from jungle do sound a bit lifeless at slower speeds (although loads of the early junglists did seem to be playing at pretty much the same tempo of current dubstep). Seems to work if you pay attention to accentuating the 16th note part of the breaks rather than the longer hits, to give it a bit more energy (not that you really need telling to be honest, but hey

Worth checking out the Rag'n'Bone stuff, Warlocks done some really good tunes and the last Aaron Spectre 12" they put out is damn fine.

http://www.ragandbonerecords.co.uk/

i agree totally

i really really like Reso's remix of dubchild for exactly this reason, has a proper lively drum feel, which i love, and try and replicate (check my myspace)

BUT

i feel there is room for many different styles

BUT AGAIN

shonky is right in that, lately, the lively drum style isn't being used enough.

yeh that aaron spectre 12 has some serious beat work
rhythm work (n percussion sounds) is definately what separates the wheat from the chaff for me atm...
breaks are deliate too, cos when things go a bit 'tearout' i switch right off.
HOD is another man who knows how to roll them out
obviously breakage is gonna be someone to watch!!

I agree partially with what you're saying Shonky but I still vibe off the dark dubstep.

For me 2-step is still one of my most treasured loves. I think it's really hard to find that illusive 'groove' within dubstep that comes from 2-step these days, but that isn't to the detriment of the new stuff.

Just off topic for a minute, check DJ Abstract, still making some big boy 2-step bits. Got a track free off the web called 'Something is Here', a MASSIVE rolling samba riddim. See if you can check it...

its all about looking to the distant continents when it comes to inspiration for making beats. not really about looking to the village band at the local fete or woteva these new kids from random satelite towns in the uk seem to be doing.

snares not on the third beat... now there's a shocking idea!

Blackdown wrote:snares not on the third beat... now there's a shocking idea!

oooo novel

Blackdown wrote:snares not on the third beat... now there's a shocking idea!

Could be a whole new subgenre

ozols man wrote:its all about looking to the distant continents when it comes to inspiration for making beats. not really about looking to the village band at the local fete or woteva these new kids from random satelite towns in the uk seem to be doing.

Yeah, used to really like that more soca riddim that was used by Agent X and others back in the day (the 12' version of Buck and Bury utilised that well).

I think more latin influence (more that batucada and samba sound than bland jazz) and some of the more interesting african polyrhythms would definitely fit well.

I tell you something that I really do rate

Digital Mystiks 'Anti War Dub'

Nice rollin beats & bass on that

I know it's probably ancient to you guys but I've only just found it on a Tayo compilation for Fabric.

Blackdown wrote:snares not on the third beat... now there's a shocking idea!

whoa there. lets not get crazy.

variety is a good thing, feel free to check my myspace theres a few tracks on there which break away from halfstep where i have applied different grooves.

www.myspace.com/roguestaruc

i love bass, but drums and rhythm are really the core of it all for me. if the rhythmic elements (bass AND drum patterns) are not working together to move a song, it all gets a bit torpid.

and shonks, did i detect a d'cruze reference in this thread title?

this is a massive area of difference between old school and new school dubstep (excepting Burial, mala, shackleton quest and a few others).

Early dubstep was descended out of garage and to an extent, some of zinc's breakbeat garage excursions. in this era the momentum came from the drums.

if you follow the growth of dubstep, halfstep tunes like 'horror show' by loefah both stripped back the drums to a minimum, and moved the snares from the garage 2 and 4, to the third.

when there's a snare on the third there's both less momentum and and impact. so producers started making the b-lines more prominant, especially tunes like skream's ancient memories remix and coki's tunes. wobbling b-lines compensate for the lack of percussive momentum and impact.

anyway, this is where we are now, with tunes like "spongebob" where the b-line provides the impact and momentum, and is so prominant in the tune that is pretty much is the tune (i've compared coki to wiley's beatless devil dubs before, because tbh you could take the snares and hats out of spongebob and it wouldnt matter).

what's important to dubstep is that it is ballanced, with a broad number of ideas. this will stop it getting "formula-ed" and stagnating. this is why i've regularly written about the need for more percussive/groove lead tunes, rather than more drop/wobble tunes, not because the latter shouldnt be made, but rather the ballance in the scene called for the former

it would also be sad to loose dubstep's rhythmic possibilities. 2step, swing, the soca beat, 12/8 time, halfstep, kick kick kick snare, wonky off-4x4, break loops (if not a cliche), 3+3+2 ... theres' loads of rhythmic ideas out there: i think it'd be worth developing them more, now dubstep's got big and has an audience.

well said.

as ever.