Dubstepforum.com

audio please if possible!?

as far as know

US garage comin from Paradise Garage... basicly house music....
UK garage is basicly is UK hip hop and R&B....

so the sound is different...

would be lovely to learn more about this subject !

Try Wikipedia ...

UK garage scene started in early mid 90's. Dominic Spreadlove, Booker T
Azuli Records. They played largely US imports. Soulful, melodic stuff with full vocals. Then peeps got into playing the "dub" mixes without so much vocals - starting pushing the pitch up. Peeps like Matt jam lamont, Carl Brown got into the sound of Todd Edwards - New Jersey producer who put more weight on the bass and starting cutting up vocals. Armand Van Helden (another US guy) did big remixes of Tori Amos, Sneaker Pimps - putting jungle sound scape over MAW style beats - this is about 96. Jungle turned into DnB - some Londoners began to drift away from it and into garage. The style took the Jamaican bass heavy groove + mcs etc. Scene blew up as "speed garage" in 1997 though original headz saw this as a press scam. Thing was seenas a fad but the scene went back underground. Peeps starting fucking around with the kick drums and two-step was born - originally deep, jazzy bassy and soulful. With the link to House music cut other peeps came in with hip hop/breaks and commercial pop flavoured Rnb (sort of drowned the original deep vibe out a bit). Two -step peaked around turn of the century - then started getting into problems with the press again cos of violence at raves and stuff. Some peeps stayed with the old original vibe but faster bpms. Others went darkside and this is sort of the beginnings of dubstep.

Or something like that

its pretty complicated, and with all these things i think a number of artificial distinctions get drawn too strongly, but from what i have been led to understand...

US Garage was the music emanating from the Paradise Garage in New Jersey, which was kind of a parallel scene to house in Chicago (although i think born of it). While much of Chicago House was rough, raw and often savoured and intensified the more inhuman elements of synthesised music and computer programmed music, for the most part garage sought humanity, depth (as in thats a deep tune) and 'soul'. It used sythesis and sampling because it was cheap, but mostly tried to emulate 'real' instruments rather than trying to push it to something new or beyond that. Problem is that this analysis ignores 'deep house', which i think went on at the same time, coming from Chicago. Im not sure about the relationship between this and garage.

Then there is another bit I'm not clear on, cos at some point this stuff turned into certain records/b-sides/dub mixes coming from New York which were soulful and warm, but ruff, bass heavy and dubbed out. These tracks were subsequently discovered and adopted by a few djs in the uk who were playing in the second rooms of jungle raves, who inevitably then started making their own tracks and inspiring others, which drew on the house/garage flavour but which incorporated elements of dance music more intense in jungle (sub bass drops, rudeboy samples/chatter, more syncopated/skippy beats, twisting fx and vocal manipulation). Thus 4x4 UK garage. But there were still UK producers making more soulful sounds, and there are US tracks which have as much of a ruff, druggy, trackhead feel as any of the UK stuff.

Then at some point, a few kicks got taken out, the rhythms got more skeletal and jittery (people chat a lot about RnB & Timbaland as a big influence on this), and that was/turned into 2step. An interesting point Simon Reynolds made is that often with 4x4 you've got the kicks holding the rhythm down, with mad, syncopated, clattering snares / chunky, weighty hi-hats, while with 2step it kind of got inversed, where the snare usually knocked out the steady pulse while the kicks and basslines went off on one underneath. But this is another place where US came into the UK, in that many big, early 2step producers cite Todd Edwards (who is a bit of a non-typical US garage producer) as a defining influence in developing many of the non-rhythmic ideas (mainly to do with vocal manipulation). But again I think jungle had a lot of bearing on what happened to the sound, especially as time went by, cos you can hear a lot of the kind of 'impression' of jungle coming into 2step.

examples, which im gonna choose to show what i talk about up there, but obviously its never as simple as this, there are loads of complications and counter-examples...

US garage / deep house -
WHAT A TUNE
This is actually a good example of seeing it get dubbed out, cos see...
this next tune, which started as a dub remix of the above
Twisted US stuff

UK 4x4 garage -
Tuff Jam
Victor Goes Ballistic
RIP Groove

2step -
Destiny
more Dem2
Down On Me

this is an amazing article:

http://www.garagemusic.co.uk/2step.html

this one is really interesting too:

http://www.deeptime.net/blog/?p=210

Deep House is what we called garage in Chicago. I think it was on the same tip, but also incorporated some of the trackier sides of Southside Chicago jack tracks.

+ House music takes its name from an old Chicago night club called The Warehouse :]

http://www.globaldarkness.com/articles/ ... _house.htm

Could be wrong - but I think you'll find that House developed in Chigaco on two tips - Frankie KnucKles - New York garage/soulful song-based and then Ron Hardy - harder trackier and who started playing the acid stuff.

I think you'll also find - not 100% sure - the audience was mostly gay and Black/Latino. Peeps who faced a double exclusion in mainstream America.

control wrote: US garage comin from Paradise Garage... basicly house music....
UK garage is basicly is UK hip hop and R&B....

Oh, good lord..

felixGash wrote:

control wrote: US garage comin from Paradise Garage... basicly house music....
UK garage is basicly is UK hip hop and R&B....

Oh, good lord..

guess its an overreaction...
i was listening UK garage in 90s and i wasnt living in UK.
so the tunes that i can found was basicly a kinda R&B, thats why i used it...
and thats why i wrote "as far as" i know...

if im making mistakes you can correct me and teach me the truth, but these hysterical reactions are completly waste of time and space.
dont ya think?

numaestro wrote:Could be wrong - but I think you'll find that House developed in Chigaco on two tips - Frankie KnucKles - New York garage/soulful song-based and then Ron Hardy - harder trackier and who started playing the acid stuff.

I think you'll also find - not 100% sure - the audience was mostly gay and Black/Latino. Peeps who faced a double exclusion in mainstream America.

but i heard it before this warehouse thing from a dj at the age of 40 something who used to work for soulseduction.

nice one elegato for taking the time to compile that post
vid links are great too

Yeah, Promised Land is epic. And if you drop "deep inside" in Chicago today you will see things get a bit buck wild, for sure. I've jacked many a body to that track.

I remember talking to Derrick Carter about 2 step and asking him what he thought of it. He was like "yeah man, loved house music for 20 years now" laughs. House is house.

control wrote: if im making mistakes you can correct me and teach me the truth, but these hysterical reactions are completly waste of time and space.
dont ya think?

Yeah, sorry.. it was just one of the most ludicrous statements I'd ever read! I was actually typing up a brief reply on what I thought the differences were, but then my "brief" reply turned into a bit of an essay and I gave up. I did copy and paste it, then save it.. I'll go through it and summarise in a paragraph (and not 6) what I was getting at.

felixGash wrote:

control wrote: if im making mistakes you can correct me and teach me the truth, but these hysterical reactions are completly waste of time and space.
dont ya think?

Yeah, sorry.. it was just one of the most ludicrous statements I'd ever read! I was actually typing up a brief reply on what I thought the differences were, but then my "brief" reply turned into a bit of an essay and I gave up. I did copy and paste it, then save it.. I'll go through it and summarise in a paragraph (and not 6) what I was getting at.

can i get the essay version
would be lovely and educative!

municiple wrote:Yeah, Promised Land is epic. And if you drop "deep inside" in Chicago today you will see things get a bit buck wild, for sure. I've jacked many a body to that track.

I remember talking to Derrick Carter about 2 step and asking him what he thought of it. He was like "yeah man, loved house music for 20 years now" laughs. House is house.

ha! sick

Promised Land is more deep house than garage isn’t it? but I really am still not that clear on whether there is a strict distinction. and I had to post it up cos I love it so much!

It seems maybe there are a whole bunch of sounds which are an archetype of a certain type of US garage which I haven’t even touched on above, the early stuff I guess… I bought a random 80s ‘This is Garage’ comp a while back and the tracks were so different, kind of more like midi soul than house, not even 4x4 sometimes as I recall. And then theres the later (as in late 90s) New York stuff which I don’t know much about either.

I think another thing worth pointing out (and was pointed out to me! Big up numaestro!) which I didn’t really think about, is that the UK stuff had a really strong strand within it of a much more conservative attitude than what I portrayed, really looking to stick to the idea of positive, spiritual, soulful music, and distance themselves from the more rudeboy elements. But even those heads made some really ruff, freaky and weird stuff.

Hey peeps.. just upped my latest mix, if you're into US Garage I think you'd like it.. check it out..

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=42743

Enjoy, and please leave feedback once you've listened..

Bassment Jaxx is UK Garage, right?


haha I love Bassment Jaxx!


actually Rooty does have some sample jems in there.

CursedC wrote:Bassment Jaxx is UK Garage, right?

No.

Are-K142 wrote:nice one elegato for taking the time to compile that post

Ditto. It is funny how innocent and jazzy the 2step sounds now. At the time I kept wishing it less dancehall and heavier. Be careful what you wish for.