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so im interested in hearing other peoples experiences in the wonderful world of sitting kick+bass in the mix.

basically i have been experimenting with cutting (not sidechaining) a notch (band reject) in the bass starting at 60hz and ending just before 70. this is only for those bass lines which only hit on the kick (quite specific). also the bass is then high passed at about 220hz to pretty much 0db which is where the kick starts (ending the kick with a non-too-aggressive-cut at about 2khz). this essentially means that the kick and the bass do not share any frequencies above abot 200hz but also between 60 and 70 and with them always hitting at the same time, this gets around the fact that sidechaining this type of sequencing would leave you with no or little bass...

this has worked well so far but is useful mainly for sub basses ending at around 250hz, would not be as good for full spectrum wubs...anyone else got any tech tips regarding the bass and kick?

peaches.

I simply cut everything under 90Hz on my kicks and roll off slightly at 1KHz.

Sub I cut under 40Hz and roll off at 200Hz

I always compress both seperately, and keep my levels low in the mix to create plenty of head room later whilst adding sounds with higher frequency content.

Anything above 150Hz is what I consider midrange... Anything above 150Hz can be heard on mobile phone speakers. We all know that they're designed to play heavy bass lol

If in doubt, eat ice cream.

To me, it feels like cutting the kick above 80 hz makes it sound weak. I guess it depends on the style. I rather cut below 60 to 80 depending on the tune.
I began recently the band-reject thing on the sub. Little details that make big difference.

And do you people cut the bass where the snare peaks?

futures_untold wrote: I always compress both seperately, and keep my levels low in the mix to create plenty of head room later whilst adding sounds with higher frequency content.

i assume this nowadays but i assume not everyone would...

Daft tnuc wrote:To me, it feels like cutting the kick above 80 hz makes it sound weak. I guess it depends on the style. I rather cut below 60 to 80 depending on the tune.

yeah its all about context. in a 'dry' minimal setting im of the opinion you can make a kick punch right up to about 180-200hz, but yeah, depends on when and on what kind of 'punch' (im usually talking a 'bass' hit at about 200hz coupled with a 'knock' hit anywhere up to about 1200hz). i imagine you true dubsteppers prefer a denser 'thump' from 60 through to about 300hz.

Daft tnuc wrote: I began recently the band-reject thing on the sub. Little details that make big difference.

And do you people cut the bass where the snare peaks?

my basses aren't usually middy enough to need that but yeah, a slight sidechain on the main snare and say midbass/pad/wothavyer is nice, especially if the limelight is stolen by a deeper sidechain on the kick and midbass/pad/wothavyer. can create a nice flow (especially when used with long decay reveb linked to the midbass/pad/wothavyer so that it sounds louder and longer the higher the frequency played - might have to post some piccies of that one )

peaches.

Big up threads like these, kind of stuff i need to learn a lot more about

yea good thread, these make think alot more

boyd wrote:Big up threads like these, kind of stuff i need to learn a lot more about

ask away we can only try and answer

miss_molinari wrote:also the bass is then high passed at about 220hz to pretty much 0db which is where the kick starts
peaches.

Do u mean hi cut/low passed?

I used to hi pass all my kicks at about 80hz but now hi pass at about 45/50hz to keep some sub in the kick and it seems to work alright. I have one subby kick that goes from about 45/50 - 200/300hz rolled off gently and then have a higher kick that is hi passed at about 300hz that can have a bit of reverb without muddying the mix.

Although sometimes if the kick is good enough I'll just use one and just hi pass it at around 45-80hz depending and roll of gently somewhere higher up the spectrum.

BreakBait wrote:

miss_molinari wrote:also the bass is then high passed at about 220hz to pretty much 0db which is where the kick starts
peaches.

Do u mean hi cut/low passed?

yes

BreakBait wrote:I used to hi pass all my kicks at about 80hz but now hi pass at about 45/50hz to keep some sub in the kick and it seems to work alright.

do you not find a 45/50hz hp conflicts with your sub? i will have to give your tunes a listen and get back to you on that.

BreakBait wrote:I have one subby kick that goes from about 45/50 - 200/300hz rolled off gently and then have a higher kick that is hi passed at about 300hz that can have a bit of reverb without muddying the mix.

you should try sending to a hp before your verb oscilating around 18-2100hz would create a similar effect without the need for two kicks (although always nice in the 'design stage')

i definately agree that verbing/delaying low frequencies is a big no no(for those that dont know know).

peaches.

What I've been doing lately is bouncing down the kick track, lowpassing one somewhere between 100-140 depending on the highest frequencies of the low sub and then sidechaining the sub to the low kick

Then take a copy of the kick track, highpass between 300-1000 and this will give you the beater noise to make the kick cut through. I then sidechain this to the more middly basses. You can also send a small amount to a reverb bus which allows you to avoid mud on the lower frequencies whilst still giving you the space.

Doing it this way seems to make sense to me cause the sidechains work on the corresponding kicks in the same frequency range, so it doesn't cause loads of unnecessary compression where you don't need it

Always make sure your kicks are in tune with the rest of the track.. u'll hear it pitching up and down.. and make sure if ur layering that the transients don't conflict(good monitors make this easy) It all comes down to kick selection.. Whats the point in cutting a kick at 80hz with a fundemental freq of say 60hz. Sure you get whats happening before it, but u won't get the nice thump of the fundemental freq.. Choose other kicks that hit the freq u want (80hz say) instead of cutting them when theres no need to. Unless you really really know what your doing getting technical like this complicates the situation. Esp for people with little experience.

My 2 cents

this thread is made of awesome!

i'm curious-- most sub energy is concentrated around 40-80hz (from around a really low c to a low c) on a keyboard. if you're cutting anything around there and lowpassing around 200hz- you're really just turning it down. would it work for you if you just turn the channel down? it depends on the tune of course, if there's a buildup somehwere it may be awesome and energetic, or it may just conflict with everything thing else.


kicks definitely have energy under 100hz-- just a matter of balancing (more volume than EQ, usually) the 2. a weighty sub doesn't have to be a loud sub-- thus, leaving you room for all that hardcore midrange bass.

If your making your drums and kicks punchy enough et etc then you shouldnt have to cut frequencies it should punch through your bass clearly. EQ can kill a sample, thats why a lot of peoples stuff tend to sound thin.

Docwra wrote:If your making your drums and kicks punchy enough et etc then you shouldnt have to cut frequencies it should punch through your bass clearly. EQ can kill a sample, thats why a lot of peoples stuff tend to sound thin.

im not sure about this. its been my experience ('miss thin-mix') that alot of dubstep sounds like garbage (from a kind-of technicalish ppoint of view) exactly because of this. people look for the "heavy" sounds and most sound artificial (not mixed well) or everywhere clashy (i.e. not reasonably eq'd/mixed).

yes many (or most heavy) kicks can 'punch' through bass but not without affecting either/both the kick and bass...this is fine but not the sound i am looking for.

i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness. for example, my kick is going along happily. one gets used to its timbre and the way it moves the air....then the bass drops and all his changes. im not up for that. my kick should be constant throughout the song (when this is my aim) regardless of whether the bass has dropped or not...

i must admit, the thought of talking production in the Production forum amused me a little. i considered putting a sarky remark in my original post in an attempt to bait replies (as i thought it'd be the only way id get em). glad i didnt...

peace.

i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness.

Maybe try using Linear Phase EQ/Compressors? Waves offer some, as do others. (Google linear phase plugins).

futures_untold wrote:

i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness.

Maybe try using Linear Phase EQ/Compressors? Waves offer some, as do others. (Google linear phase plugins).

cheers, i wasnt saying however that i was failing , just wanted other peoples takes on the techy side of kick/bass/ness.

cheers though, Waves is the bestest.

TeReKeTe wrote:i'm curious-- most sub energy is concentrated around 40-80hz (from around a really low c to a low c) on a keyboard. if you're cutting anything around there and lowpassing around 200hz- you're really just turning it down.

i disagree with this methinks just because the dynamics of the bass change when using any kind of freq' cutting on it. turning it down is just lowering all thefrequencies, which is almost the opposite of what im after. im trying to leave all but the flabby frequncies high or wothavyer, cutting only the smudgy ones..

anyway, time for a brew, etc. peace.

miss_molinari wrote:

BreakBait wrote:I used to hi pass all my kicks at about 80hz but now hi pass at about 45/50hz to keep some sub in the kick and it seems to work alright.

do you not find a 45/50hz hp conflicts with your sub? i will have to give your tunes a listen and get back to you on that.

All my tunes on myspace were put up about a year ago, I'm talkin what I've started it doin in the last few weeks. I should have some new things up soon tho.

miss_molinari wrote:
i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness. for example, my kick is going along happily. one gets used to its timbre and the way it moves the air....then the bass drops and all his changes. im not up for that. my kick should be constant throughout the song (when this is my aim) regardless of whether the bass has dropped or not...

either Sidechain them or carve out the kick frequencies in the Bass....