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I just bought a pair of Fostex PM 05's and they are really nice, but it seems like they are almost muddy sounding. Is it just me? This is the first time I've mixed with proper monitors and maybe I'm just not used to them yet..

i don't know about your specific monitors, but the acoustics of the room will have an effect on how they sound as well. Also, having the monitors sitting on your desk will make the low - mid a bit muddier due to sympathetic vibrations and such. I've got mine sitting on some acoustic isolation pads atm like these: http://www.silentpeaks.com/spk_isolator.html which made a big difference.

Also, do you monitors have any kind of frequency attenuation control? like a low and high frequency gain or something.

Alright thanks, that helps a lot then.. I may try moving them into a different room as right now they are in a fairly open empty room. Just moved into a new place.. I'll have to check out those stands as well.

But there are no EQ settings on the backs of these.. Just gain knob and power thats it really.

Duskky wrote:i don't know about your specific monitors, but the acoustics of the room will have an effect on how they sound as well. Also, having the monitors sitting on your desk will make the low - mid a bit muddier due to sympathetic vibrations and such. I've got mine sitting on some acoustic isolation pads atm like these: http://www.silentpeaks.com/spk_isolator.html which made a big difference.

Also, do you monitors have any kind of frequency attenuation control? like a low and high frequency gain or something.

no worries. being in a room with some soft furnishings always help, but it's also about getting used to your monitors, which will come with use

Why do people waste money on shit sounding cheap 'studio monitors' for the sole purpose of mixing on? Idiots imho, real fucking muggy tnuc looking idiots.

Save your money and get a half decent hifi amp and a pair of Tannoy F1 Customs for under £100 and with a 5star review from What HiFi.

Job done, sounds lovely.

Want more bass? Use some of that money you saving on partnering them up with a sub.

Fostex aren't exactly cheep monitors.. Funny too I seen Caspa and Rusko using the exact same monitors..

Caeraphym wrote:Why do people waste money on shit sounding cheap 'studio monitors' for the sole purpose of mixing on? Idiots imho, real fucking muggy tnuc looking idiots.

Save your money and get a half decent hifi amp and a pair of Tannoy F1 Customs for under £100 and with a 5star review from What HiFi.

Job done, sounds lovely.

Want more bass? Use some of that money you saving on partnering them up with a sub.

are you mixing as in setting all the levels in your tracks OR dj mixing??

If its mixing your track and this is the first time youve mixed it on studio monitors, it is probably your tune that sounds muddy and not the monitors.

I can't really comment about these monitors becuase I havent used them but different monitors do sound better that others. Basically I have tested and mixed on a few different pairs of monitors and also the room can have a MASSIVE hand in how a mix/monitors sound.

Not dj mixing. Mixing as in mixing my tracks I'm producing.

I'm going to try a different room and see if it sounds better though. But you may be right that it is my tracks that are sounding muddy and not the monitors.. Also my ear is a bit used to the sound of my hifi and not these monitors i think..

faun2500 wrote:are you mixing as in setting all the levels in your tracks OR dj mixing??

If its mixing your track and this is the first time youve mixed it on studio monitors, it is probably your tune that sounds muddy and not the monitors.

I can't really comment about these monitors becuase I havent used them but different monitors do sound better that others. Basically I have tested and mixed on a few different pairs of monitors and also the room can have a MASSIVE hand in how a mix/monitors sound.

unilynx wrote:Not dj mixing. Mixing as in mixing my tracks I'm producing.

Sorry

Me.
Stick.
Wrong end.
Bollocks!

unilynx wrote:Not dj mixing. Mixing as in mixing my tracks I'm producing.

I'm going to try a different room and see if it sounds better though. But you may be right that it is my tracks that are sounding muddy and not the monitors.. Also my ear is a bit used to the sound of my hifi and not these monitors i think..

faun2500 wrote:are you mixing as in setting all the levels in your tracks OR dj mixing??

If its mixing your track and this is the first time youve mixed it on studio monitors, it is probably your tune that sounds muddy and not the monitors.

I can't really comment about these monitors becuase I havent used them but different monitors do sound better that others. Basically I have tested and mixed on a few different pairs of monitors and also the room can have a MASSIVE hand in how a mix/monitors sound.

Yeah, but dont just try another room. Get some acoustic treatment in there. When you clap your hands do you hear reverb??? If so, get some foam.

Duskky wrote:i don't know about your specific monitors, but the acoustics of the room will have an effect on how they sound as well. Also, having the monitors sitting on your desk will make the low - mid a bit muddier due to sympathetic vibrations and such. I've got mine sitting on some acoustic isolation pads atm like these: http://www.silentpeaks.com/spk_isolator.html which made a big difference.

Also, do you monitors have any kind of frequency attenuation control? like a low and high frequency gain or something.

Hi i had simular probs and found that the silentpeaks speaker isolators made a big difference.I bought them after seeing their 10* music tech review. I had better seperation and a much tighter base and has stopped vibrations through my desk. I was also lucky enough to pick up some dicontinued panel traps off them for half price (you'll have to email them and ask what they've got) and what a difference. So yes you need to look at your acoustics.

www.silentpeaks.com

unilynx wrote:Not dj mixing. Mixing as in mixing my tracks I'm producing.

I'm going to try a different room and see if it sounds better though. But you may be right that it is my tracks that are sounding muddy and not the monitors.. Also my ear is a bit used to the sound of my hifi and not these monitors i think..

Are your high-fi's bright? Or is the treble boosted on your preprocessor? Are they in a live sounding room (i.e. lots of glass, hard floors, etc.). It could be just your comparison something fairly nuetral to something bright sounding.

Your monitors should be fairly nuetral, as they have pretty flat frequency response. Test them using some recorded material you know is well mixed.

Monitor pads may help after you get things better tuned, but the idea of decoupling your monitors from your desk is kinda sketch because the mass of your monitors is far greater than that of the driver. Your drywall reacting to the sound is probably more of an issue.

Really room treatments are the best solution for getting the best sound, and DIY ones can be fairly inexpensive to make. Also if you aren't running a subwoofer with those you aren't getting the full frequency spectrum you need (20Hz to 20kHz, generally).

You'll find nuetral speakers to be fairly boring sounding if your used to bright speakers, that could be it in itself.

You can have the best monitors in the world, but if your room acoustics are bad, the sound won't be accurate and you won't be able to judge levels and frequencies when you mix.

I would say there are two main considerations. Stereo Image and frequency balance.

Stereo Image:
When sound enters the room, it is reflected by the walls, ceiling, floor, desk - pretty much everything that's non absorbent.

This causes problems with stereo imaging because the more reflective the room is, the more the sound bounces around and the more distorted the stereo image becomes.

This is less of a problem in larger rooms as the sound waves lose energy as they travel so by time the reflection gets back to your ears it is alot quieter and more delayed so its easier for our brains to seperate it from the mix in the speakers.

Frequency balance:

Rooms resonate at different frequencies. I won't go into the exact science of it but basically parallel walls are bad because sound waves bounce back and gain amplitude and take longer to decay. Bass frequencies are more powerful and if they take a while to decay, they will generally sound louder but phase cancellation will help kill them eventually.

There will be frequencies that have wave cycles the same size as the distance between your walls / ceiling and floor. If the walls are parallel this is a major problem because that frequency will bounce back in phase with the approaching wave. Two waves that mix in phase will gain amplitude will create a noticeable peak at that frequency. Then you also have peaks at harmonic frequencies. You also have the same problem with waves that bounce back out of phase wich cancel each other causing dips at those frequencies.

The worst possible shape room is a cube because the distance between walls , floor and ceiling are the same so that frequency is boosted 3x.

The best shape room would be a room with no parallel walls, but in the real world that's hard to achieve - especially if it's in your house.

So, the most effective way to dull the peaks and tighten the stereo image is to reduce the amount of reflections by using absorbent materials which will help remove energy from the waves and / or diffuse so they reflect in different directions

You can buy foam panels to absorb the sound. Generally, the thicker or more dense the foam is, the more effective it is at absorbing bass - and bass is usually your main problem area.

You don't need to cover your walls in the stuff, just put it up where your ears hear the most reflections - In front, to the sides and behind the listening position. You can use CD racks as diffusers, anything to break up the sound.

Sorry for the long post, but I've got nothing better to do Anyway, hope it helps.

i thought they sounded boxy and muffled as well, that's why i didn't buy them.

jhoij

sorry ignore that last quote

before you get into decoupling, room treatments, and monitor pads (btw: no mix was ever taken from good to great with monitor pads), have you played commerically-released music through them? CDs/vinyl across genres that you like and know sound good-- how do they sound? if those sound boxy and muddy, then it's the monitors.

If not, then you've gotten monitors that are showing you what your mixes lack--and that's a good investment! not easy, but definitely something that'll help you work well.

FWIW 400-800hz is where 'boxiness' often lies, especially in drum sounds.