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i would agree that grime is at least trying something new instead of just mimicking US 90's Hiphop. as an american listening to uk hiphop mentioned in this thread, it honestly sounds silly and fake compared to grime like wiley (i have no knowledge to most grime) who actually sounds like himself

paravrais wrote:

Mico Viejo wrote:

Naus wrote:theres alot of good uk hip hop artist out there that are in no way connected to grime.

depends what u mean by "good". if u mean technically okay but working in a musical genre they didnt invent and havent really contributed anythign new to beyond finally quitting putting on an american accent, then yeah. if on the other hand u think that 4something 2b good it needs to be original, fresh, exciting, genuine, forward-thinking and appropriate for the time and place in which its created (i.e not still fucking harping back to some golden age of hip hop in the bronx 1981) then no. they're mostly shit.

grime IS uk hip hop. that other thing ppl call uk hip hop is mostly just substandard american hip hop made by some english ppl. and we dont even have the excuse the french have (who also produce just american hip hop, and mostly comemercial shit at that) in that they dont understand the lyrics of the original so they need to make their own.

if u want hip hop then listen to the real thing. if u want good, original british MCing... then there is only grime.[/i]

Out of everything I've ever seen on the internet, that post possibly offends me the most XD

The differences between american and uk hip hop are vast.

American hip hop - Upbeat backing tracks, large amount of focus on the rappers flow, lyrical content either about the rapper themselves or some pop culture ideal and also imo more simple production techniques.

Uk hip hop - Darker/melancholy backing beats, large focus on the LYRICS of the rapper with a tendency to use lots of metaphor and double similie type things, lyrical content generally political, more complex/interesting production.

I find it strange because to me american hip hop has been dwindling for years in its little rut where nothing inovative or different has come out for ages but uk hip hop is where all of the new forward thinking ideas are being put to use.

http://www.myspace.com/rhymeasylum <<<<No american artist stands up to them or tons of other people I could pull up...

Listen to this see if you change your mind...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNG4nab4mpg

Then try Jedi Mind Tricks, then Immortal Teknique.

going back to the original question:

some "grime"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNi4Wkh3zTE

some "dubstep"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nNVT2x9b0Q

you could argue the production value for one is better than the other, maybe that's the obvious thing, but i think another difference would be what the producer is trying to express and where the tune is likely to be played and heard.

two stunning tunes though

Firstly lets clear up the UK HipHop vs Grime. Hip Hop is at 80-90 bpm usually (correct?), grime is 140bpm. I'm not gonna lie here, a LOT of grime is pureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bullshit, but there is some good grime out there.
UKHH emcees do not use a fake american accent, if they do they look like idiots over here.
a few examples of UKHH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3cI-4RGfZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDGJd1LwQ64

Heres a few examples of Grime which I think is pretty good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDGJd1LwQ64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2VFF4_tto0

Some old grime which have some beats which are similar to dubstep with those grimey baselines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbghsfAlIq0

You can clearly see the difference between hiphop and grime. Grime emceeing is probably way more influenced from dancehall emcees than hiphop emcees. However some grime emcees can swap over and shit, which often happens when they get bigger (see dizzee, see kano).

Secondly, Dubstep clearly has a large influence from grime music, espcially the older beats. When grime beats are made tho, they are made with the emcees in mind, so there is more 'room' left for them, where as dubstep, a lot more can be put in if u get what i mean. We all know Dubstep has a lot of influences grime is just one of them, so there is no point bickering. But because dubstep and grime beats do sound similar somtimes and are at the same bpm, grime emcees can emcee over them. Flow dan was in a grime group called roll deep. Newham generals often emcee at dubstep nights.

Thirdly, to you Americans making snide comments at the UK, you know what your doing. What's the point in those snide comments?
Myself I am white and middleclass. But a large majority of this country do live in poverty and crime ridden areas filled with gangs, guns drugs and all the other bullshit u get in American cities, and most cities round the world for that matter, and many people get killed. I'm sure if I was from Kingston/Jamaica (where somone is kileld every 6 hours) I could say "lol @ black people and guns in the US". There is a world outside outside the USA, just so you know, just because your corrupt government, your news channels, the majority of your celebrities and the majority of your population are ignorant dickheads, doesn't mean you need to be too.

And fourthly, why not ask Plastician lol?

mico viejo wrote:

Naus wrote:theres alot of good uk hip hop artist out there that are in no way connected to grime.

depends what u mean by "good". if u mean technically okay but working in a musical genre they didnt invent and havent really contributed anythign new to beyond finally quitting putting on an american accent, then yeah. if on the other hand u think that 4something 2b good it needs to be original, fresh, exciting, genuine, forward-thinking and appropriate for the time and place in which its created (i.e not still fucking harping back to some golden age of hip hop in the bronx 1981) then no. they're mostly shit.

grime IS uk hip hop. that other thing ppl call uk hip hop is mostly just substandard american hip hop made by some english ppl. and we dont even have the excuse the french have (who also produce just american hip hop, and mostly comemercial shit at that) in that they dont understand the lyrics of the original so they need to make their own.

if u want hip hop then listen to the real thing. if u want good, original british MCing... then there is only grime.[/i]

are you for real? Roots manuva and the other artist i mentioned are innovators and fresh. Grime is something different the MC style in grime evolved from drum and bass/jungle and garage mcing so does that mean that dnb mcs are uk hip hop.

Hip hop started in USA and the Uk version of that is not grime but artist such as Taskforce, Kashmere etc who talk about UK life and sceen etc in an UK accent on beats produced mostly by english beatmakers.

That my friend is UK Hip Hop ... Not Grime. Hip Hop is Hip Hop!

I think what he meant by that was not that they are the same, but that the Grime is to the UK what hip hop is to the US

i would respond but this is pointless... some people are going to put labels on things and argue about them no matter what...