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jaydot, do you want the nhs to be fully privatised? also do you want cuts in education so that increased spending in defense can be afforded. do you want paid maternity and paternity leave to be ended?

DJoe wrote:jaydot, do you want the nhs to be fully privatised?

I don't know enough about the pros-cons of it tbh.

well do you want a healthcare system like the one in america?
also do you want cuts in education so that increased spending in defense can be afforded. do you want paid maternity and paternity leave to be ended?

just giving a few examples of shit ukip policies

but yeah do you actually support these policies?

jaydot wrote:It seems you're either right or left these days you don't get many people with a neutral opinion on immigration. You've got people the liberal left who are more often than not middle class and then the more working class, more right leaning people who as I say are actually directly affected by the effects of mass immigration.

Since when did left and right mean "for and against" immigration?

Actually the middle class tend to be right wing, working class left wing.

Is your whole idea of politics immigration control? Its only really an issue when the media want it to be.. apart from that I'm sure its a pretty small part of politics.

DJoe wrote:but yeah do you actually support these policies?

Well the paternity/maternity one I don't really care about as I don't plan on having kids and always hood up but no party can have a perfect manifesto.

Muncey wrote:

jaydot wrote:It seems you're either right or left these days you don't get many people with a neutral opinion on immigration. You've got people the liberal left who are more often than not middle class and then the more working class, more right leaning people who as I say are actually directly affected by the effects of mass immigration.

Since when did left and right mean "for and against" immigration?

Actually the middle class tend to be right wing, working class left wing.

For the purpose of this discussion.

I disagree, the working classes may be economically left wing but socially they're on the whole more right wing. And vice versa.

thats very selfish if you dont mind me saying.
lol calling the manifesto not perfect is an unbelievable understatement.
the nhs definitely effects you
anyway i cant be asked for another ridiculous political discussion with you

jaydot wrote:

Muncey wrote:

jaydot wrote:It seems you're either right or left these days you don't get many people with a neutral opinion on immigration. You've got people the liberal left who are more often than not middle class and then the more working class, more right leaning people who as I say are actually directly affected by the effects of mass immigration.

Since when did left and right mean "for and against" immigration?

Actually the middle class tend to be right wing, working class left wing.

For the purpose of this discussion.

I disagree, the working classes may be economically left wing but socially they're on the whole more right wing. And vice versa.

I disagree, working class tend to be left wing they're just hugely impressionable and when the media want to cause up a fuss and theres programs on Channel 4 about immigration they're hugely vulnerable to the propaganda.. they aren't pushed right wing they're pushed to extremist ideas. Its not the first time and UK isn't the only place.

DJoe wrote:thats very selfish if you dont mind me saying.
lol calling the manifesto not perfect is an unbelievable understatement.
the nhs definitely effects you
anyway i cant be asked for another ridiculous political discussion with you

OK I'll rephrase it, I have no opinion one way or another as it won't affect me, I believe if you have kids you should be able to afford to pay for them and should UKIP come to power and that means subsidised/no maternity/paternity pay then people will have to regulate for it.. Scrapping the bedroom tax, no benefits to migrants for 5 years, there's plenty of viable policies. And yes the NHS thing does effect me but most parties want to privatise the NHS it never happens though,

Muncey wrote:

jaydot wrote:

Muncey wrote:

jaydot wrote:It seems you're either right or left these days you don't get many people with a neutral opinion on immigration. You've got people the liberal left who are more often than not middle class and then the more working class, more right leaning people who as I say are actually directly affected by the effects of mass immigration.

Since when did left and right mean "for and against" immigration?

Actually the middle class tend to be right wing, working class left wing.

For the purpose of this discussion.

I disagree, the working classes may be economically left wing but socially they're on the whole more right wing. And vice versa.

I disagree, working class tend to be left wing they're just hugely impressionable and when the media want to cause up a fuss and theres programs on Channel 4 about immigration they're hugely vulnerable to the propaganda.. they aren't pushed right wing they're pushed to extremist ideas. Its not the first time and UK isn't the only place.

I think there's been plenty of anti UKIP propaganda and yet they're doing ok. That's coming from the broadsheet/BBC type media channels. Which is largely a middle class reader/viewership...Would you actually call UKIPs policies extreme though, really? A hell of a lot of middle class people are disillusioned too tbf with immigration. OK I'm watching Spain Chile, back later to hear your thoughts.

yeah the right wing want to privatise the nhs.
the left wing parties dont
the tories have already started privatising it so it could happen. would be even more likely to happen if ukip get in
just because stuff doesnt affect you doesnt mean that it wont save the tax payer money which seems to be the most important thing for you, rather than improving the quality of life for those living in this country.
if ppl do have kids and cant necessarily afford them, the government should pay because its at the kids detriment if they dont. the kids are innocent. they didnt make the choice to be born
scrapping bedroom tax i agree with.
no benefits to migrants thing is silly, if you dont want to give them benefits, dont let them in otherwise its just a clearly xenophobic policy.
also the amount they claim is relatively tiny, but weve shown you the figures before and you still havent accepted this as true so im barking up the wrong tree by telling you that

UKIP are doing as well as they are because they are the only party that seem to be taking the 'issue' of immigration seriously and actually talking about it. To reduce their support parties/people need to argue against their policies with proper reason and decent arguments as opposed to marginalising a large proportion of the country by just shouting 'RACIST' and ignoring everything else.

yeah i agree with you here mason. you'll notice i havent done that

yh i know not saying you did just someone was talking about why ukip are so popular now a few pages back

im 80/20 on the immigration shit. 80% i dont think its a problem at all. hypocritical cos uk = most immigrating population ever. immigrants dont 'steal jobs' and 'freeload on benefits' - like srsly, is it the benefit stealing or the job stealing? u cant steal both ffs. but also 20% our country is quite small and it could be easily overpopulated. things would sort themselves out though, just look at china

imo why theyve got so popular is that people hate what they dont understand and theyre scared of things that are different. its easy to scapegoat foreign people and pull the wool over the eyes of the plebs, it stops them actually thinking for 2 seconds and trying to address the real problems


but wanting to privitise the nhs is an absolutely horrific policy and any party supporting that doesnt deserve to have the slightest chance of power

As i have said before i don't believe that immigration is currently an issue, i think in the future it could be and the fact that we have to let anyone that some unelected bureaucrats in a country that is not ours say is rediculous imo. It is like insurance for a phone; you don't buy the insurance because you fully expect you will break your phone you buy it in case. I think we should have at least some form of border controls for Europeans as an insurance policy.

bennyfroobs wrote:imo why theyve got so popular is that people hate what they dont understand and theyre scared of things that are different. its easy to scapegoat foreign people and pull the wool over the eyes of the plebs, it stops them actually thinking for 2 seconds and trying to address the real problems

yh but it is also easy to say that anyone with a different opinion to yours is a pleb or has the wool over their eyes

yeah i dont disagree

Yeah when I say media propaganda I mean the way its been made out to the average person that immigration is a huge issue and should be at the top of the agenda for the Government. Masons pretty spot on with why people vote UKIP but immigration sells papers so its made out to be a massive issue, an issue which needs fixing now... and UKIP do offer to resolve that issue. I actually agree with them that we should control our own borders, be it harsh measures or completely open.. it should be the choice of our Government.

Its partly the fault of the other parties not only because they've ignored the immigration issue but they've failed to highlight more important issues, if they don't wanna tackle the immigration issue because they don't see it as an issue they need to tell people what are the real issues, they fail miserably doing that.. again media are partly to blame as well on that front.