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jrisreal wrote:any music that takes talent and doesnt sound like crap

Still, this is a bit subjective. There are a lot of examples when something has sounded like crap to a lot of people, but others enjoyed it.

Take The Beatles for example. The first guy they went to thought they sounded like crap and didn't want to work with them.

Disco Nutter wrote:

jrisreal wrote:any music that takes talent and doesnt sound like crap

Still, this is a bit subjective. There are a lot of examples when something has sounded like crap to a lot of people, but others enjoyed it.

Take The Beatles for example. The first guy they went to thought they sounded like crap and didn't want to work with them.

well then good music is good to some people and crap to others...but there is no reason to say that electronic-based music lacks talent...even if he doesnt like it lol

gravity wrote:i love how you guys get wound up by an actual musician telling you that pissing around on a midi sequencer isnt making real music.

newsflash: its not.

You're right yeah, never heard of anyone using a sequencer to make music, at least not real music, maybe some music from an alternative reality parallel to our own

gravity wrote:i love how you guys get wound up by an actual musician telling you that pissing around on a midi sequencer isnt making real music.

newsflash: its not.

then why are you on a forum dedicated to music made that way...

gravity wrote:i love how you guys get wound up by an actual musician telling you that pissing around on a midi sequencer isnt making real music.

newsflash: its not.

haha one of the best comments i've seen yet on this forum. so true indeed, if more dubstep producers knew something about composition i don't think we'd have so many people trying to emulate whatever sound is hot at the moment. (this isn't directed at anyone on this board, apart from the trolls who start a 'how do i sound like skrillex?' thread) the whole copy & paste this for 8 bars, breakdown 8 bars 'by-numbers' stuff is getting tiresome to me already and i've probably been trying to make dubstep for less time than the majority of board members.

having said that, i don't think music theory knowledge is necessary, or in fact sufficient for making good dubstep. and despite playing guitar for about 9 years my theory's still shite, so hey ho

edit: correct me if i'm wrong gravity, but i don't think he's saying that making music in sequencers is a talentless endeavour. surely it's just whether your music uses composition (i.e. melodies, counter-melodies, harmony, structure) or production to make it sound good and unique. obviously, they're not mutually exclusive either- but many dubstep producers do seem content to have only 2 actual 'parts' to a song, copy and pasted and slightly varied. which is all gravy, dubstep's about rhythm 'n groove- it's not classical music. but it's only a matter of time before the majority of dubstep producers will have to come up with more varied structures. or maybe that's just my personal taste, coming from a prog-metal background, i dunno. i suppose pop music has been using the same verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-outro template for decades, and the masses still love this shit! (apparently)

Sorry for ranting, but i also think it's important to bear in mind whether a producer is aiming at club/live audiences, or is making music mainly for people listening in their bedroom (not mutually exclusive, of course, but i think the desired outcome plays a huge part in the musical direction taken). if you're producing music that's intended to be heard on a dancefloor, simple structures are great and more likely to get people moving than if you have odd time-signatures (never heard it in dubstep personally, link me up if you've heard an example though!) and constantly changing parts, that may sound awesome to the lone listener, but just throws people off when they're trying to dance. i just know that if i listen to flux pavillion at home, by the end of the second song i'm usually bored, and the same goes for most mainstream dubstep. you can always tell when the drop is coming etc. which again, is fine, but i dunno...maybe fully progressive/avant-garde dubstep is yet to become a fully-established, bona fide genre?

Those comments are pretty standard man, a lot of guitarists think like that, when I was about 16 I thought like that too, most of them grow out of it and realize that musical elitism is dumb-ass.

The ones who don't? ...



In fairness I've probably said some ridiculous shit about production at some point recently.

felixWBO wrote:many dubstep producers do seem content to have only 2 actual 'parts' to a song, copy and pasted and slightly varied. which is all gravy, dubstep's about rhythm 'n groove- it's not classical music. but it's only a matter of time before the majority of dubstep producers will have to come up with more varied structures. ... coming from a prog-metal background

I would expect that if you do come from a background like that you would be pretty familiar with the concept of minimalism (where you do as much with one or two small musical ideas as you can) a concept which saturates the very roots of dubstep. I rarely use more than ONE idea in a track (click my sig for an example), I could write something infinitely more complex, but I don't want to, it's far more exciting and challenging to make a quality tune built around one solid idea that can hold it's own for three minutes than it is to come up with a track that changes every 5 seconds and using crazy time signatures and unconventional harmonies. If I gave myself that kind of freedom I'd be writing a tune nearly every day.

You can't escape the influence of minimalism in dubstep, it saturated the early stuff and so now it is consistently present and established as a norm - new writers do it without even realizing when they try to emulate their favorite producers. Not only that, but new artists entering into dubstep are experimenting far more than you or some others in this thread seem to give them credit for. Dubstep as a genre is inherently experimental.

felixWBO wrote:if you have odd time-signatures (never heard it in dubstep personally, link me up if you've heard an example though!)

Hurtdeer from this very forum.

felixWBO wrote:maybe fully progressive/avant-garde dubstep is yet to become a fully-established, bona fide genre?

You're not looking hard enough.

Considering that avant garde concepts are at the very heart of electonic music, and dubstep, and that avant garde composers such as, Pierre Schaeffer, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, John Cage, Charles Ives...etc*, influenced and continue to influence the proponents of electronic music it becomes a bit of a farse when you try claiming it isn't already avant-garde or progessive.

*The fact that when I post this very few people here will struggle with those names and most will be familiar with at least one of them is further evidence supporting my point. (God don't let me down production forum...)

random dumbass customer from when I was working at guitar center

A YO - YOU GOT THAT FREAKY LOOPS?

The one i get asked a LOT is the old...

If my drums are at -3db should my sub be at -10??

Those sort of things are used an analogies and guidelines and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Its all subjective, a sub might be at -10 and sounds horrible in the mix, and one at -10 in another might sit right and could have some mild overdrive on it increasing its perceived volume etc...

FSTZ wrote:A YO - YOU GOT THAT FREAKY LOOPS?

Ahahahahaahahhahha.

Kochari wrote:

jaimelee wrote:"I don't care if it's booming into the red! It sounds good!.."

I then proceeded to slap that boy into reality.

Lee "Scratch" Perry used to push it into the red all the time....If it sounds good, do it.

Lee "Scratch" Perry also used analog gear - if you can get hold of any analog mixing consoles try comparing the sound of analog clipping to digital clipping. I find it hard to believe that anyone could make digital clipping sound good!!

wub wrote:All of this thread;

stupidest things you have ever heard during a session. - GearSlutz.

this link is gold. Here's one of my favorites so far...


me trapped in a maze of rookie questions

DJ: could you please make that conga higher
Me: which conga, there is no conga in this song
DJ: that deep sound
Me: oh you mean the bass (solo'ed it)
DJ: no, that drum sound
Me: oh you mean the kick (solo'ed it)
DJ: no, that deep bongo sound
Me: eehhrr... there is no bongo in this song, i'm pretty sure you mean the bass (muted it) does it still play?
DJ: yeah that's it, the bass
Me: cool, how would you like it? explain "higher" to me
DJ: just higher, so i can hear it better
Me: i make it louder (fader up 3 dB)
DJ: no
Me: ok, (raised the filter frequency in synth) better this way?
DJ: no
Me: let me try this (transposed +5) now???
DJ: no, can't you make it sound like a conga?
Me: ????!!!??? eeehhr no (bass was played legato, thru the whole 4 bars) are you sure you want a conga instead of the bass?
DJ: yes
Me: (muted bass, played some conga sounds) this is a conga, do you still want it?
DJ: no it doesn't sound bassy enough, where is the bass anyway?
Me: i need a cigarette

Sounds like working in an actual studio would be so frustrating, but at the same time pretty hilarious.

GRAYSKALE wrote:

Kochari wrote:

jaimelee wrote:"I don't care if it's booming into the red! It sounds good!.."

I then proceeded to slap that boy into reality.

Lee "Scratch" Perry used to push it into the red all the time....If it sounds good, do it.

Lee "Scratch" Perry also used analog gear - if you can get hold of any analog mixing consoles try comparing the sound of analog clipping to digital clipping. I find it hard to believe that anyone could make digital clipping sound good!!

Lee Scratch Perry also thought the government was after his music so he buried all his reels in his front yard

when i opened for him in 2009, he lit his shoes on fire, talk about a "HOT STEPPA" LOL

my point is.. sure the guy's a legend, that doesn't mean you should follow in his footsteps

FSTZ wrote:random dumbass customer from when I was working at guitar center

A YO - YOU GOT THAT FREAKY LOOPS?

what about dem reasonz

so i bought this my die (spelled for how they said it) to usb cord and i can't hook it up to my speakers or headphones

i'm sure those of us who have worked at ger shops have a wealth of stupid things heard

This isn't really a stupid comment as such, but I was in a band way back when and we had a bit of a douchey lead singer and we'd been writing this song and he made us stop and said (these were his exact words) - " I don't like the drum beat, why don't you play boom ticky boom tickidy boom ticky boom" . . . needless to say that band shortly dispanded!!

The most annoying thing about when peeps come up to producers and try to slate EDM as not being 'real' music is that they don't realise all the music THEY listen to is mostly electronic these days too. They seem to be under the impression that bands just get one mic, switch on record and boom, that's the album done. They'd probably cry if you told them all of their 'real' music was going through a DAW and had subtle synth work and various electronic effects too. Or that choir in their favourite metal track is actually Alchemy or whatever.

paravrais wrote:The most annoying thing about when peeps come up to producers and try to slate EDM as not being 'real' music is that they don't realise all the music THEY listen to is mostly electronic these days too. They seem to be under the impression that bands just get one mic, switch on record and boom, that's the album done. They'd probably cry if you told them all of their 'real' music was going through a DAW and had subtle synth work and various electronic effects too. Or that choir in their favourite metal track is actually Alchemy or whatever.

Not to forget most drum work is done with drum replacement and triggers nowadays too!

lol this^

the truth is there's just as many losers wanking on a guitar trying to be the next Sugarcult as there are dbags cracking fruity tryna be skream. It doesn't matter your format or tools, it matters if you're going to produce a piece of media that holds some kind of function in society. and if you aren't into EDM why the fuck are you here? tryna say flylo isn't an actual musician

Frank Zappa was a genius composer, but he was also one of the first people to make a record entirely from sampling. he was a sampling enthusiast. albeit a bit weirder than many.... he'd enjoy letting an entire reel of music play over another at a different tempo and admire the way the beats would always synchronize into a cycle if you let them go long enough. Sometimes a very long cycle, but its true, any two steady tempo recordings will lock up at some point and create a cycle that often contains lots of polyrhythms inside of a rotation

deadly habit wrote:

FSTZ wrote:random dumbass customer from when I was working at guitar center

A YO - YOU GOT THAT FREAKY LOOPS?

what about dem reasonz

so i bought this my die (spelled for how they said it) to usb cord and i can't hook it up to my speakers or headphones

i'm sure those of us who have worked at ger shops have a wealth of stupid things heard

"REASONZZZZZZ"

reminds me of this...

there was an asian guy that used to come in to the store and he had no clue what he was buying

one time he was complaining about his casio keyboard and he kept shouting at the sales rep "I PUT DICK IN.. NO MIDI NO NUTTING"

he meant "disk" but he couldn't say it

repost time, but always relevant