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SunkLo wrote:You saying limit them? Or weren't you on about brickwall filtering or something as another name for band reject filters?
Sharp crossovers is pretty foolish in terms of phase and just sounding nasty, but then again so would brickwall limiting your samples unless just shaving off the tops.

brickwall eq has no slope,thats all. it doesnt sound nasty , in that case it wouldnt have even been introduced. and brickwalling your mids and highs sound better as your mid/high speakers play a certain hz range. what would be the point of having 100 hz and below leftover when mids/high are above 135 hz or so?

leaving those lows when splitting audio will sound like crap,they seep in here and there.

Im sure no one plays their whole mix through a sub woofer solely...

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

SunkLo wrote:Yeah obviously I'm clueless because I don't know about a plugin from Ableton?

it is not a multiband compressor solely.

Yes, split the bands. brickwall the low and set it to mono and add slight reverb , set mids and highs to "Side" only brickwall both accordingly.

Im curious about that. How do you process the different bands from the multiband dynamics? Imho its not possible to FX them, because they are mixed together inside the plug, and afaik theres no way to route them out seperatly.....

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

SunkLo wrote:You saying limit them? Or weren't you on about brickwall filtering or something as another name for band reject filters?
Sharp crossovers is pretty foolish in terms of phase and just sounding nasty, but then again so would brickwall limiting your samples unless just shaving off the tops.

brickwall eq has no slope,thats all. it doesnt sound nasty , in that case it wouldnt have even been introduced. and brickwalling your mids and highs sound better as your mid/high speakers play a certain hz range. what would be the point of having 100 hz and below leftover when mids/high are above 135 hz or so?

leaving those lows when splitting audio will sound like crap,they seep in here and there.

Im sure no one plays their whole mix through a sub woofer solely...

Lot's of stuff has been invented that doesn't sound good. I think they're used primarily in ADCs. If we're looking at speakers for example you'll see their crossovers aren't abrupt cuts. Sharp changes in volume and phase will usually result in distortion. Not to mention jittery gain changes when frequencies move from one band to another.

Tuning a crossover with a shallow slope up a bit higher will be kinder to your lows than using a band reject filter and adding reverb. Especially with low bass frequencies and their longer wavelengths, it's important not to apply drastic processing like this. I'm sure any mastering engineer would tell you the same. Hell go ask Macc, or Sharmaji, they both know their shit and can back it up.
Do whatever you want though really, it's your music.

No idea what you mean by the last two sentences, thought we were talking about frequency splitting for processing? If you're talking about highpassing out lows from other tracks, again a gradual slope will sound more natural with less coloration. And why would anyone play a track only through a subwoofer? Unless they were monitoring sub bass? Again no clue what you mean by this.

jobbanaught wrote:

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

SunkLo wrote:Yeah obviously I'm clueless because I don't know about a plugin from Ableton?

it is not a multiband compressor solely.

Yes, split the bands. brickwall the low and set it to mono and add slight reverb , set mids and highs to "Side" only brickwall both accordingly.

Im curious about that. How do you process the different bands from the multiband dynamics? Imho its not possible to FX them, because they are mixed together inside the plug, and afaik theres no way to route them out seperatly.....

In reaper there's a 2-in-multi-out splitter plugin that let's you do it on one track. You'd just set up the receives on different channels. If you're using a different daw though you're gonna end up just doing it manually. Not too much work, creating a few busses and the summing them together after. Make sure you've got delay compensation for the processing you use otherwise the individual bands will go out of phase with each other.

so how do u put fx on one channel using multidynamics in Live?

I'm guessing you don't, Moxxie just read about it on the internets.

gh02 wrote:so how do u put fx on one channel using multidynamics in Live?

Drag Multidynamics into the audio rack where the loop is then higlight the multidynamics plugin and press ctrl+g , this open a audio rack onto multidynamics.

Then expand the audio rack so you can see the chain, there should be one chain there already.
Hold ctrl and click and drag on the first chain to make copies of it.
Youll need to make three copies.
Next rename each chain from top to bottom in this order .. low,mid and high.
Click on the low chain and solo the low channel to it, its the "S" in multidynamic area.
Do the same for each chain, solo mid for mid , solo high for high.
Also make sure to change the "amount" value on the multidynamics to zero, in each chain.

Then all you do is drag your vst to which ever chain you want it in.
Make sure you add Utility to the low chain and change its value to "0.0" so the lows is mono.
This helps when you go to sidechain your bass because when you side chain you can choose the "low" chain post output for input only and that it being in mono it picks up only the bass of the kick and nothing else. also makes the kick sound full doing it this way. Atleast in my opinion.

If you dont have one already ,get a stereo image narrower or a monoizer vst so you can send the mids and highs to the "Side" speakers , keeping the "mid" area clean.


Hope that helped.

SunkLo wrote:I'm guessing you don't, Moxxie just read about it on the internets.

Thanks for making yourself look like more of an ass. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Well I do my best but I could never outshine you my dear

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

gh02 wrote:so how do u put fx on one channel using multidynamics in Live?

Drag Multidynamics into the audio rack where the loop is then higlight the multidynamics plugin and press ctrl+g , this open a audio rack onto multidynamics.

Then expand the audio rack so you can see the chain, there should be one chain there already.
Hold ctrl and click and drag on the first chain to make copies of it.
Youll need to make three copies.
Next rename each chain from top to bottom in this order .. low,mid and high.
Click on the low chain and solo the low channel to it, its the "S" in multidynamic area.
Do the same for each chain, solo mid for mid , solo high for high.
Also make sure to change the "amount" value on the multidynamics to zero, in each chain.

Then all you do is drag your vst to which ever chain you want it in.
Make sure you add Utility to the low chain and change its value to "0.0" so the lows is mono.
This helps when you go to sidechain your bass because when you side chain you can choose the "low" chain post output for input only and that it being in mono it picks up only the bass of the kick and nothing else. also makes the kick sound full doing it this way. Atleast in my opinion.

If you dont have one already ,get a stereo image narrower or a monoizer vst so you can send the mids and highs to the "Side" speakers , keeping the "mid" area clean.


Hope that helped.

Yeah, that would work, but its kind of a hack. You dont need multidynamics for this, just using an audio rack with three chains and auto filters to split the bands is way simpler.

layering drums is fundamental. telling someone to not bother is retarded. you dont have to layer every drum sound, but a lot of times you will. especially kicks. try layering a higher pitched punchier kick over a thuddy lower end one, and even put an 808 behind those to add something extra every few bars or so. i know a lot of the newer shit coming out has the most basic drums, and people are jocking whub whub and sub bass, but cmon bruv... keep it next level and show some love to your drum track... and especially don't say "not bother" lol...

yeah... i used to just use 1 kick on its own. But for my latest track, i thought 1 kick sounded kinda amateurish and just didnt have what i wanted. So i opened up a sub kick, cut out the high frequencies to give it some bass... then opened up a kick which hit in the higher frequences and cut out the low frequencies and layered them both with the existing kick i had open, i got a good result i think...

i wouldnt say its fundamental to layer drums over eachother, i just seemed to get a better result working this way for a change. Some people get good results with just using a single hit, others prefer to layer, each to their own.

A-List wrote:yeah... i used to just use 1 kick on its own. But for my latest track, i thought 1 kick sounded kinda amateurish and just didnt have what i wanted. So i opened up a sub kick, cut out the high frequencies to give it some bass... then opened up a kick which hit in the higher frequences and cut out the low frequencies and layered them both with the existing kick i had open, i got a good result i think...

i wouldnt say its fundamental to layer drums over eachother, i just seemed to get a better result working this way for a change. Some people get good results with just using a single hit, others prefer to layer, each to their own.

Using 1 kick isnt amateur, it depends on what methods you know to tweak that one kick.

jobbanaught wrote:

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

gh02 wrote:so how do u put fx on one channel using multidynamics in Live?

Drag Multidynamics into the audio rack where the loop is then higlight the multidynamics plugin and press ctrl+g , this open a audio rack onto multidynamics.

Then expand the audio rack so you can see the chain, there should be one chain there already.
Hold ctrl and click and drag on the first chain to make copies of it.
Youll need to make three copies.
Next rename each chain from top to bottom in this order .. low,mid and high.
Click on the low chain and solo the low channel to it, its the "S" in multidynamic area.
Do the same for each chain, solo mid for mid , solo high for high.
Also make sure to change the "amount" value on the multidynamics to zero, in each chain.

Then all you do is drag your vst to which ever chain you want it in.
Make sure you add Utility to the low chain and change its value to "0.0" so the lows is mono.
This helps when you go to sidechain your bass because when you side chain you can choose the "low" chain post output for input only and that it being in mono it picks up only the bass of the kick and nothing else. also makes the kick sound full doing it this way. Atleast in my opinion.

If you dont have one already ,get a stereo image narrower or a monoizer vst so you can send the mids and highs to the "Side" speakers , keeping the "mid" area clean.


Hope that helped.

Yeah, that would work, but its kind of a hack. You dont need multidynamics for this, just using an audio rack with three chains and auto filters to split the bands is way simpler.

Youre joking with me right? using auto filters on each chain soley? .....

Moxxiedubstep wrote:

A-List wrote:yeah... i used to just use 1 kick on its own. But for my latest track, i thought 1 kick sounded kinda amateurish and just didnt have what i wanted. So i opened up a sub kick, cut out the high frequencies to give it some bass... then opened up a kick which hit in the higher frequences and cut out the low frequencies and layered them both with the existing kick i had open, i got a good result i think...

i wouldnt say its fundamental to layer drums over eachother, i just seemed to get a better result working this way for a change. Some people get good results with just using a single hit, others prefer to layer, each to their own.

Using 1 kick isnt amateur, it depends on what methods you know to tweak that one kick.

i never said using 1 kick was amateurish, i stated that using 1 kick in my latest track SOUNDED amateurish, because it didnt have what i wanted. then later stated that people get good results just using a single hit.

A-List wrote:yeah... i used to just use 1 kick on its own. But for my latest track, i thought 1 kick sounded kinda amateurish and just didnt have what i wanted. So i opened up a sub kick, cut out the high frequencies to give it some bass... then opened up a kick which hit in the higher frequences and cut out the low frequencies and layered them both with the existing kick i had open, i got a good result i think...

i wouldnt say its fundamental to layer drums over eachother, i just seemed to get a better result working this way for a change. Some people get good results with just using a single hit, others prefer to layer, each to their own.

Listening to your batman song , is that where you used layered kicks? its making the bass sound all of the place imo .did you side chain ?
That batman track wouldve came out way better if you used a single kick and work with it.

layering kicks is more work imo you have to pitch the layers correctly,,eq , then theres phase/movement issues. like dead said ,layering would be more practical to add a tail or a slight punch to a diffrent kick.

If you have aim and ableton I can help you out and show you the diffrence

Moxxiedubstep wrote:
Listening to your batman song , is that where you used layered kicks? its making the bass sound all of the place imo .did you side chain ?
That batman track wouldve came out way better if you used a single kick and work with it.

layering kicks is more work imo you have to pitch the layers correctly,,eq , then theres phase/movement issues. like dead said ,layering would be more practical to add a tail or a slight punch to a diffrent kick.

If you have aim and ableton I can help you out and show you the diffrence

yeah thats the track i layered 3 kicks together on. and i havent sidechained anything on this track dude. could you possibly elaborate on your 'its making the bass sound all of the place imo' in a PM? just so we dont go off topic! im afraid i dont have aim or ableton either mate, would appreciate some pointers though!

good call. PM'ed

A-List wrote:

Moxxiedubstep wrote:
Listening to your batman song , is that where you used layered kicks? its making the bass sound all of the place imo .did you side chain ?
That batman track wouldve came out way better if you used a single kick and work with it.

layering kicks is more work imo you have to pitch the layers correctly,,eq , then theres phase/movement issues. like dead said ,layering would be more practical to add a tail or a slight punch to a diffrent kick.

If you have aim and ableton I can help you out and show you the diffrence

yeah thats the track i layered 3 kicks together on. and i havent sidechained anything on this track dude. could you possibly elaborate on your 'its making the bass sound all of the place imo' in a PM? just so we dont go off topic! im afraid i dont have aim or ableton either mate, would appreciate some pointers though!

Bass sounds fine to me and so does the kick.
Keep in mind the people telling you not to layer are probably getting their kicks from sample packs where the kicks are already layered up. Some sounds you cannot get from only a single membrane vibrating. Yes there's phase issues and frequency clashes but that's where the work is. You'll have to meticulously choose which ones go together, envelope, eq, compress, compress together, etc. But at the end of it you have a custom kick with the exact personality you want for your track. Or just skim a Vengeance CD and pick one that'll fit your track. Just depends on which strategy you're going for and how raw your sample material is.

negative. I use live recorded drum kicks or make them by synth.

But i do use hihat and ride loops from some packs.