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flatfaced wrote:

symmetricalsounds wrote: bit of bollocks in this statement, the difference you hear between dropping something into simpler and then straight into an audio track is simply a volume difference.

live's built in plugs are generally pretty decent, eq8 isn't amazing but it can be useful. good quick tool for some m/s eqing, if you want a REALLY good eq then go for dmg audio equality.

man the filters of the sampler are awful

they're not my first choice filters but still get used.

what do you think is awful about them?

ok, not awful but not great (edited)

they're dirty mid quality and unpredictable - the control over them is super tuff

that bootsy stuff looks kool

flatfaced wrote:ok, not awful but not great (edited)

they're dirty mid quality and unpredictable - the control over them is super tuff

that bootsy stuff looks kool

never found them to be unpredictable, i dunno...and yes the bootsy stuff is good.

I've never had any problems with Abletons built in plug ins O.o I've got tons of third party plugs I never use because Ableton's stock are just faster to use and better sounding. The overdrive and saturation is the best I've used bar the scream4 in Reason. Really crisp and crunchy :p

In my opinion if you can use your DAWs native plug ins you should. It saves you wasting time dealing with third party stuff that will never integrate as seemlessly. I use almost exclusively native plugs and I reckon my mixdowns are fairly decent.

paravrais wrote:saturation is the best I've used

flatfaced wrote:

snick01 wrote:fl's parametric eq2 ftw!

is it solid ?

Its quick, easy, sounds how i want it to sound and loads of parameters to play with. someone may come along and point out loads of faults with it but for my standard of production (pretty low tbh! ) it does me fine and i have never felt the need to go looking for another!

paravrais wrote:I've never had any problems with Abletons built in plug ins O.o I've got tons of third party plugs I never use because Ableton's stock are just faster to use and better sounding. The overdrive and saturation is the best I've used bar the scream4 in Reason. Really crisp and crunchy :p

In my opinion if you can use your DAWs native plug ins you should. It saves you wasting time dealing with third party stuff that will never integrate as seemlessly. I use almost exclusively native plugs and I reckon my mixdowns are fairly decent.

This. I'm the same. I love the Abe overdrives especially. They're really not bad and if you are blaming them for your song sounding shit I think you should be pointing the finger somewhere else.

I still use third party plugs, but only where there's nothing that fits the bill in Abe. For example the linear EQ I mentioned earlier, there are times when a linear EQ is simpler.

symmetricalsounds wrote:

gen_ wrote:Well its been proven in other forums that most of live's built in plugins are pretty low quality. (pretty much everything imo except operator, 3 and the other new synths) Just try playing something out of simpler compared to playing it just dragged and dropped into an audio track. I can't find it now but there's one that even goes on to suggest that EQ8 doesn't actually do what you tell it to with your top end. That was enough for me, I didn't like the colour it gave when I used it anyway.

Grab yourself a digital EQ (try here http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=3 and set the EQ to digital) and compare them.

bit of bollocks in this statement, the difference you hear between dropping something into simpler and then straight into an audio track is simply a volume difference.

live's built in plugs are generally pretty decent, eq8 isn't amazing but it can be useful. good quick tool for some m/s eqing, if you want a REALLY good eq then go for dmg audio equality.

Hahahahahaha..... No.

Simpler has been around since the first Ableton Live. A bit like Logics silver plugins. Its lower quality, I kid you not. I don't know the exact specifications but I know when Ableton went to 64bit summing none of the plugins were updated for fear of changing the sound of legacy tracks. Same for all of the plugins.

If they didn't update the plugin to go with the biggest change in sound quality in Abletons existence, I think its safe to assume they didn't update it since it arrived.

Redderious wrote:

gen_ wrote:Well its been proven in other forums that most of live's built in plugins are pretty low quality. (pretty much everything imo except operator, 3 and the other new synths) Just try playing something out of simpler compared to playing it just dragged and dropped into an audio track. I can't find it now but there's one that even goes on to suggest that EQ8 doesn't actually do what you tell it to with your top end. That was enough for me, I didn't like the colour it gave when I used it anyway.

Grab yourself a digital EQ (try here http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=3 and set the EQ to digital) and compare them.

REALLY???? is this true?? This comes as a huge shock to me. Im going to have to try some experiments to see this for myself, going to be lookin into alotttt of vsts over the next couple of days.

That EQ looks pretty sick, i wish i could try it but im running a OSX. If you know any PC/MAC programs that are worth trying you should send me another link! I suppose i'll start the search though the vast realms of the internet for the perfect EQ now...

So do I, I would look at BlueEQ, PSP Neon, or of you want free Smartelectronix Magnus Nyquist

blueeq = Price: € 832

gen_ wrote:Hahahahahaha..... No.

Simpler has been around since the first Ableton Live. A bit like Logics silver plugins. Its lower quality, I kid you not. I don't know the exact specifications but I know when Ableton went to 64bit summing none of the plugins were updated for fear of changing the sound of legacy tracks. Same for all of the plugins.

If they didn't update the plugin to go with the biggest change in sound quality in Abletons existence, I think its safe to assume they didn't update it since it arrived.

Seems suspect to me. I don't see why simpler would have inherently worse sound quality :s what you put in should be what comes out. That's the point of a sampler no? Maybe the filters are dodge, I've never used them though. The sampler itself shouldn't colour the sound at all though.

paravrais wrote:

gen_ wrote:Hahahahahaha..... No.

Simpler has been around since the first Ableton Live. A bit like Logics silver plugins. Its lower quality, I kid you not. I don't know the exact specifications but I know when Ableton went to 64bit summing none of the plugins were updated for fear of changing the sound of legacy tracks. Same for all of the plugins.

If they didn't update the plugin to go with the biggest change in sound quality in Abletons existence, I think its safe to assume they didn't update it since it arrived.

Seems suspect to me. I don't see why simpler would have inherently worse sound quality :s what you put in should be what comes out. That's the point of a sampler no? Maybe the filters are dodge, I've never used them though. The sampler itself shouldn't colour the sound at all though.

This is all something i'm EXTREAMLY curious about, if anyone has any sources or past experiences that show a lower quality using Live plugs id really appreciate a response. Once i heard this i started thinking about making a possible DAW switch. I'm not positive if this is the right place to ask, but if this 'low quality' problem is true, is their anything in Live that's worth keeping it around for?

Voxengo has some solid freebies.

Redderious wrote:This is all something i'm EXTREAMLY curious about, if anyone has any sources or past experiences that show a lower quality using Live plugs id really appreciate a response. Once i heard this i started thinking about making a possible DAW switch. I'm not positive if this is the right place to ask, but if this 'low quality' problem is true, is their anything in Live that's worth keeping it around for?

Well there's the workflow, I personally love the way you audition samples in it and warping engine and automation are great to use. Effects wise the overdrive, saturation, compressor and limiter are all really good imo. If you've got the suite version Operator and Tension are badman. The resonator, vinyl effect and vocoder are good too actually. Then there's max for live which opens up whole new worlds to explore. Not to mention all the great controllers built to integrate seemlessly with live (check out Novations website) and in turn the complex live shows you can put together with it.

Personally I think Ableton would be a really hard DAW to move on from because when you're used to a workflow that's that smooth anything else is gonna feel clunky and long afterwards. If you really don't like it then sure move on to something else but don't just switch DAW because you think it will suddenly make you a better producer because it won't. Tons of top level producers use it.

Redderious wrote:
This is all something i'm EXTREAMLY curious about, if anyone has any sources or past experiences that show a lower quality using Live plugs id really appreciate a response. Once i heard this i started thinking about making a possible DAW switch. I'm not positive if this is the right place to ask, but if this 'low quality' problem is true, is their anything in Live that's worth keeping it around for?

everything
Live is the best imo (i know the soundquality of FL and Cubase is better)

you could do everything with it fast and ez - everything is in front of you - user friendly interface...and thats one of the most important things - you dont get stuck up and it has many advanced features also..

am not ok with the filters thats all...i dont know of any other soundquality problems

maybe Logic is better but...mac

and please dont take what is written here as an absolute - decide on your own !!!

flatfaced wrote:i know the soundquality of FL and Cubase is better

That's absolute nonsense.

spend some time on both of these and get back here

as long as i remember FL is thicker and warmer also the top is somehow more alive
Cubase - overall

am talkin small amounts here

flatfaced wrote:spend some time on both of these and get back here

as long as i remember FL is thicker and warmer also the top is somehow more alive
Cubase - overall

am talkin small amounts here

I can guarantee you're imagining it or it's because you've used different plug-ins in each program. I've spent a *lot* of time in Ableton, Reason/Record, Reaper and Cubase and have spent enough time in FL and Renoise to know the lay of the land and the only one I've noticed a difference in the sound engine is Reason and even that is very slight.

flatfaced wrote:am talkin small amounts of shit here

fixed

the engines are different - there is no way each one of them to be the same as the others

yeah even the shits are different every time