Dubstepforum.com

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Jumpup heads don't think the elitists have any right to hate on their music

while there are two camps with differing opinions, i think the anti-wobble camp have a right to complain about wobble because a) the sound that created the dubstep scene to begin with (2000-2005) wasn't the mid-range wobble sound and b) said mid range wobble sound is now the dominant default/mainstream club sound, rather than being a being a balanced part of a wide, healthy dubstep spectrum.

(i should point out though that in 2010 i mostly think of this battle of being pretty much over and the quest for the incredible sense of musical progress that the wobble formula prevents as being carried on by headz elsewhere).

I think theres actually 3 camps:

Jumpup is for Dicks
Deep is for pussys
And nu-skool spastic wobble is for arseholes who shit on everyone!

Seriously though I don't consider anything pre 2004 dubstep as producers were calling it garage or breakbeat back then so although your right about midrange not being a big part of the sound back then the calm b4 the inevitable storm didn't last very long at all and ppl seem to conviently forget that Skream was leading the way back then not Doctor P etc. Saying that you have to get rid of midrange to progress musically is bullshit there are epic harder tunes out there with tons more soul and life to them that some of the boring as fuk IDM cack that gets so much love on here but some ppl will still try and say they all sound the same and that a tune thats taken month of hard work to finish is no better than Cookie Monsta's latest 5 minute knuckle shuffle.

BTW this argument has been done to death this thread is yet another in a long line of pointless time wasters!

DRTY wrote:

system_meltdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:If you were comparing it to cooking then wobble is like meat and dub like veg - most ppl/djs eat/play both but theres plenty of misguided idiots out there who are too backward to eat any vegetables and a few self righteous prics who bang on about how we should all be vegetarians.

Sick metaphor

+1

Yea Rob, Well put!!!

How can you have any pudding if you dont eat your meat?

its the deep tracks that are gonna stand the testament of time. that, and the stuff thats been released on a physical, non-digital medium.

cyrusfx wrote:its the deep tracks that are gonna stand the testament of time. that, and the stuff thats been released on a physical, non-digital medium.

Agreed but just I don't think a lot of the "deep" music thats popular at the moment is actually any good

It was purely the sounds of Mystikz, Loefah and Skream that got me into this music originally not any pretenious tekky liquid IDM shite - im not saying that sound can't be done well but all too often its just boring to listen to and far from timeless

rob sparx wrote:Seriously though I don't consider anything pre 2004 dubstep as producers were calling it garage or breakbeat back then...

well thanks for the update: those of us standing in Velvet Rooms circa 2001 listening to Hatcha drop "Red 1" on dubplate don't agree, regardless of what it was or wasn't called ("the FWD sound") at the time.

rob sparx wrote: Saying that you have to get rid of midrange to progress musically is bullshit there are epic harder tunes out there with tons more soul and life to them that some of the boring as fuk IDM cack that gets so much love on here

there are many things that wobble has but soul sure isn't one of them, unless you call "soul" the sound of screaming midranges having an infantile tantrum. you also set up the false supposition that the opposite of wobble is IDM cack: i'm just as interested in IDM cack as I am in brostep. obviously dubstep can be, is and was so many amazing sounds inbetween those two.

and you mention progression but one thing that makes wobble so dull, beyond what it sounds like, is it's predictability: 16 bar halfstep intro, swearing/immature aggressive film sample drop and ... ooh look, large dynamic range change into a mid range modulated "bassline".

wobble fiends can rightly argue that it "goes off" in a club, fair play it does, but lets not talk about progression.

Erm, I was at the Velvet Rooms back in 2001 as well and I don't agree with you at all Blackdown. Sure the music was a lot more minimal in general back then, but that was almost 10 years ago. It's progressed to such a degree it's pretty incredible really.



( I edited my original post because I ended up ranting, more to do with the fact that it's 6 am here and I've been up all night.)

gee I'm chuffed that Sparxy & Blackdown are steppas
gives me an excuse to be intelligent

I agree with both even tho they seem to be disagreeing
thank you.

blackdown wrote:you also set up the false supposition that the opposite of wobble is IDM cack: i'm just as interested in IDM cack as I am in brostep. obviously dubstep can be, is and was so many amazing sounds inbetween those two.

good dubstep is its own category, i call it "dubstep"...and for the sake of my sanity i try to avoid talking about music with people who think that word means something else. (which is also why i try my best to avoid this forum like the plague. except today, obv. )

blackdown wrote: well thanks for the update: those of us standing in Velvet Rooms circa 2001 listening to Hatcha drop "Red 1" on dubplate don't agree, regardless of what it was or wasn't called ("the FWD sound") at the time.

blackdown is on point como siempre...

surely kode9s 'ping' is dubstep as are most things on the first rephlex comp as well??

i like rob sparx's trooper lp though still despite taking blackdowns side

The fact that people even use the term "IDM" on this site is just sad.

Rob please list some examples of the boring IDM cack you so frequently reference.

listen to what you want to listen to. adn the reason they dont get along is because of the internet.

deamonds wrote:Rob please list some examples of the boring IDM cack you so frequently reference.

maybe it's geiom. gravious, boxcutter, pangaea, burial, shackleton & funckarma.....i love all of them

to pretend dubstep didn't exist pre 2004 is a bit silly! dubstep allstars 1 came out June 2004, most of those tracks weren't written that year, lol

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

deamonds wrote:Rob please list some examples of the boring IDM cack you so frequently reference.

maybe it's geiom. gravious, boxcutter, pangaea, burial, shackleton & funckarma.....i love all of them

If that's the stuff that qualifies as "IDM cack", well, then, I am an "IDM cack" fiendddddd

Eeeeeh, the thing is, I think, that a portion of people who are into dubstep don't take the time to appreciate the wider sound - it's just party music to a lotta guys and girls.

But the way I see it, it's their loss.

I think the problem with the wobbly side of dubstep is most producers seem to be losing track of what made that side of dubstep great when it first started emerging. People seem to be of the believe that the more random distorted mid range sounds you put in the track the heavier it will be which isn't the case. It's losing all the atmosphere and attitude it used to have and the subtlies in it. It sounds weird but to make agressive in your face hard shit in electronic music you have to actually have to pay attention to the little things that give the drums energy or the way the bassline progresses that makes it sound genuinely nasty. It's just becoming like Jump up dnb is. Rhythmically bland emotionless music for people who are of their tits to go "woooaahhh listen how heavy that is" even though it's completely lifeless.

There is the problem that on the other side of things people are getting far away from dubstep in the opposite way. Their listening to what essentially sounds like an 8 year old progressive house tune and going "wow this is so deep and original. Future sounds for sure" and standing rather still during dj sets and complaining that anything that doesn't have just a plain sub sound with no mid sounds on top is automatically mindless shit and isn't real dubstep (even though they're ironically listening to what's basically house while saying this).

What I feel is that the attention to rhythm and atmosphere of things like the old Replhex Grime compilations needs to come back and into wobbly dubstep and that people should start putting focus on actual darkness and filthyness too, and not the sort of "filth" that makes people on youtube go "wooooah, it's so filhty I shat on my nan" or something like that. Genuine grittyness and agression.

i can relate to this too.
all very confusing
unless you forget the names etc
and go: this is good, this is shit
trouble is, next day, you might like the shit & find the good stuff boring.
ce la vie.

wolf89 wrote:I think the problem with the wobbly side of dubstep is most producers seem to be losing track of what made that side of dubstep great when it first started emerging. People seem to be of the believe that the more random distorted mid range sounds you put in the track the heavier it will be which isn't the case. It's losing all the atmosphere and attitude it used to have and the subtlies in it. It sounds weird but to make agressive in your face hard shit in electronic music you have to actually have to pay attention to the little things that give the drums energy or the way the bassline progresses that makes it sound genuinely nasty. It's just becoming like Jump up dnb is. Rhythmically bland emotionless music for people who are of their tits to go "woooaahhh listen how heavy that is" even though it's completely lifeless.

There is the problem that on the other side of things people are getting far away from dubstep in the opposite way. Their listening to what essentially sounds like an 8 year old progressive house tune and going "wow this is so deep and original. Future sounds for sure" and standing rather still during dj sets and complaining that anything that doesn't have just a plain sub sound with no mid sounds on top is automatically mindless shit and isn't real dubstep (even though they're ironically listening to what's basically house while saying this).

What I feel is that the attention to rhythm and atmosphere of things like the old Replhex Grime compilations needs to come back and into wobbly dubstep and that people should start putting focus on actual darkness and filthyness too, and not the sort of "filth" that makes people on youtube go "wooooah, it's so filhty I shat on my nan" or something like that. Genuine grittyness and agression.

Summed up nicely.