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I don't understand why OP seems to think that his opinion of what is and isn't art is the final word in the matter?

who considers pop music art anyway?

edit: and if pop music isn't art it doesn't show a decline in anything apart from the shit people feel the need to waste their cash on..

Tragic Gash wrote:I don't understand why OP seems to think that his opinion of what is and isn't art is the final word in the matter?

who considers pop music art anyway?

edit: and because pop music isn't art it doesn't show a decline in anything apart from the shit people feel the need to waste their cash on..

Be shocked. These people exist.

its like deliberate art, is pretty much the only thing that isnt art
how you breath naturally, until you think about it

Tragic Gash wrote:I don't understand why OP seems to think that his opinion of what is and isn't art is the final word in the matter?

who considers pop music art anyway?

You're doing the same thing by saying 'who considers pop music art anyway?'. This whole notion that 'if I don't like/it's too "simple" for me, so it's not art' is really elitist.

It's bad enough that people designated a separate term for sound made by human thought as music, it's the ultimate expression of human arrogance. How is birdsong, or ANY sound for that matter, that isn't 'usually called music' not worthy of the title 'music'? Why is it, when humans are involved, inherently better? If in the future someone created software to compose something that sounds identical to birdsong, would that be art, as opposed to actual birdsong?

People who designate music, or art they like, as 'art' and music they don't like as 'non-art' take it EVEN FURTHER.

All of it and none of it is art. It's just so... irrelevant. Does it sound good? Yeah? Listen to it. Does it sound bad? Don't bother with it. But don't use the 'the stuff I like is art, the stuff most people like shouldn't even be CALLED art!'. It reeks of 'I need a superiority complex and I'll use the songs my brain happens to respond postively to as a way to achieve that'.

Some people say modern art is prentious. I look at it like this

Genevieve wrote:

Tragic Gash wrote:I don't understand why OP seems to think that his opinion of what is and isn't art is the final word in the matter?

who considers pop music art anyway?

You're doing the same thing by saying 'who considers pop music art anyway?'. This whole notion that 'if I don't like/it's too "simple" for me, so it's not art' is really elitist.

It's bad enough that people designated a separate term for sound made by human thought as music, it's the ultimate expression of human arrogance. How is birdsong, or ANY sound for that matter, that isn't 'usually called music' not worthy of the title 'music'? Why is it, when humans are involved, inherently better? If in the future someone created software to compose something that sounds identical to birdsong, would that be art, as opposed to actual birdsong?

People who designate music, or art they like, as 'art' and music they don't like as 'non-art' take it EVEN FURTHER.

All of it and none of it is art. It's just so... irrelevant. Does it sound good? Yeah? Listen to it. Does it sound bad? Don't bother with it. But don't use the 'the stuff I like is art, the stuff most people like shouldn't even be CALLED art!'. It reeks of 'I need a superiority complex and I'll use the songs my brain happens to respond postively to as a way to achieve that'.

yuh may have bn a bit hypocritical there

my actual point was that what is designated as being art/music is subjective; some people/cultures do consider birdsong as music, others don't even have a word that means music as we understand it, and "soundscape artists" have replicated sounds from nature in an attempt to reify them as an artistic creation... maybe you're right and it is irrelevant, but that isn't going to stop me or anyone else having an opinion of what art is and what art isn't is it?

i get what the OP is saying...its a spiritual response more than anything

maybe everyone gets what hes saying and rejects it but i doubt they feel it in the same way

i am around 'evolution' of music every day so maybe i am more embittered than most due to working for hmv

having said that nobody here can change it so maybe its a pointless thread

Maybe I'm being delusional...

but I think that when I was a child and growing up...
that the music industry CARED about what it was exposing people to...
or - a faction of it did, at least...a working, active faction.

Now I feel like Disney just bought in big and is manufacturing garbage music and "artists"


I agree 100% with the person that said demand was being fabricated...

..they want your sons to be Jonas Brothers
..because it makes for an entertaining church picnic.

Nipples and hair are a reflection of modern society.

bright maroon wrote:Maybe I'm being delusional...

but I think that when I was a child and growing up...
that the music industry CARED about what it was exposing people to...
or - a faction of it did, at least...a working, active faction.

Now I feel like Disney just bought in big and is manufacturing garbage music and "artists"


I agree 100% with the person that said demand was being fabricated...

The people that make up the 'industry' will always care, the industry itself has never cared... investors want cash, they don't care about art. People who start record labels, work for PR firms, organise award ceremonies, scout for bands etc they almost ALL care about music.. it's only the people who are making the direct profits that often don't give a fuck. I live with pop PR people and they adore music so much they spent their entire lives from between 13 and 23 seeking out a career in it (and fucking doing it)... unfortunately, they have to take the jobs which pay the bills - pop has to be made, sold and bought for the whole machine to function because music for art's sake just doesn't make enough cash to employ an industry full of enthusiasts.

But it doesn't need to affect any of us... great music will always be made. Some of it will filter through to the pop world because it's also "easy" enough to make money... that effect lures more people into the niches, but there will always be a mass market for utter shit. Berry Gordy didn't give a *fuck* about artistry... he found a successful method and bled it til it dried, he almost didn't let Marvin Gaye do What's Going On because it might shock his investors... money people have always and will always be shit. Concern yourself with artists who have always and will always be awesome.

As someone with fingers deep in the pop pie, I can confirm that we are the spawn of Satan sent here to ruin the lives of all. Enjoy the rest of your day.

I think that whats "art" is defined by the consumer. If Justin Bieber makes a song just for the money, then it's not art in my opinion. BUT, if someone genuinely likes that song and thinks it's art, then who am i to say it's not? However, a lot of the people listening to "mainstream" music nowadays listen to it because of it being mainstream. THAT'S what i dislike about pop music and pretty much any popular music nowadays, although i don't let it get to me.
It just doesn't have that special ingredient.

Just this year I was like...What's this Katy Perry girl about...
and went and listened to that - "I Kissed a Girl" song..that made her so popular...

and I thought - what a weak ass tune...total bite off "always somethin' there to remind me"...
but done in that new style california formulaic- thinly veiled country music - fully lackluster..

nice one though, winding up the LGBT crowd with that...gay market ploy

you can't tell whether artists are making real art by whether they're paid for it: goya was paid to paint the spanish royal family's portrait, and got away with showing them as complete idiots: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... los_IV.jpg

there are always artists who are doing it they way they feel it, not for money, but who have poor taste, so it's shit. and some of them are successful.

the big record companies have gone more down the route of manufacturing carbon copies of what's been successful before and hyping it (rather then letting artists do what they feel, and releasing whichever of them they reckon is good and they have a hunch a lot of people will agree), but then the big companies are becoming less relevant.

if you listen to soul destroying music don`t jump up and down when your soul is on the verge of destruction.

I turn the radio on an get disgusted by the crap that everyone is calling in to request and the crap that`s being played.
Push play on the cd and smile at how amazing the music I listen to is.

Wake up in the morning and say, damn, It`s another awesome day of music.

As I said before, You make your own environment.

Electric_Head wrote:

xarcane wrote:Bruv, you posted too quickly to even listen to the music. Stop trying it.

we all got the point without listening to the music, but yet, we still don`t care.

evolution is a part of everything, big surprise.
The fact that you`re soo hung-up on this style of music`s shitty evolution is troubling.

don't try and speak for everyone you negative nelly. I care only because you have stated that I don't. beeeetch

Hypefiend wrote:

Electric_Head wrote:

xarcane wrote:Bruv, you posted too quickly to even listen to the music. Stop trying it.

we all got the point without listening to the music, but yet, we still don`t care.

evolution is a part of everything, big surprise.
The fact that you`re soo hung-up on this style of music`s shitty evolution is troubling.

don't try and speak for everyone you negative nelly. I care only because you have stated that I don't. beeeetch

I`m not negative.
2 people posted before me, I was speaking for them and myself.
You are now posting 2 pages later.
And what a shocker, you have a view that`s different to mine.

I am however, a realist.
Life is all about the shit he is being deeply effected by.
When you start listening to music you are blown away by everything, including commercial music.
As you experience new music you`re blown away by how cutting edge it is and how everything else is just moving in a bad direction, until you hear something else that makes you go no-way, cutting edge.
If you choose to focus on the devolving nature of music then that is just what it will be to you.
Conversely if you focus on the good aspects of music then that is what music is to you.

xarcane wrote: no doubt you've seen Gwen Stefani slide into the toilet

A bad pun?

... >_> <_< Yep

EH if you were a realist you would consider things before you answer. You're not a realist, you're the biggest of fantasists. To believe your opinion is right when you haven't even considered the thing you are forming an opinion about is the height of fantasy. You're reminiscent of those Fox-News watching Republicans and White Nationalists who accuse everyone of having succumbed to propaganda, whilst virulently spouting propaganda themselves. You have nothing in defense of your opinion except your own very high opinion of it. I've been told just to ignore you and a couple of others, and I don't intend to argue with your nonsensical amoeba-like opining, but I thought I would clear you up on your misguided view that you are a "realist".

xarcane wrote:... >_> <_< Yep

EH if you were a realist you would consider things before you answer. You're not a realist, you're the biggest of fantasists. To believe your opinion is right when you haven't even considered the thing you are forming an opinion about is the height of fantasy. You're reminiscent of those Fox-News watching Republicans and White Nationalists who accuse everyone of having succumbed to propaganda, whilst virulently spouting propaganda themselves. You have nothing in defense of your opinion except your own very high opinion of it. I've been told just to ignore you and a couple of others, and I don't intend to argue with your nonsensical amoeba-like opining, but I thought I would clear you up on your misguided view that you are a "realist".

It`s alright.
I can agree to disagree.

However, I must comment on your statement of my nonsensical amoeba-like opinion.
Strange how I don`t have an issue with pop music ruining the fabric of humanity.
That is a fantasy you have created.
I also don`t understand how you are comparing my opinion to an amoeba and then saying it`s nonsensical?
I stated many points in one post, therefore not single celled in any way.
In fact it was a multi-faceted argument.

It is also not just my opinion but the opinion of many others.
If you ignore all the crap and purely focus on good music then how could you possibly feel that humanity is being destroyed by such amazing music?
The world is a horrible place until you start searching for the positive.
Then the fantasy that I create becomes reality.
I prefer my reality to yours to be quite honest.
It certainly seems to be a more positive, happier place where the music industry does not decide my fate.

On a side note, I wasn`t trying to hurt your feelings.
No need to call me names.
Words cut deep.