Dubstepforum.com

Parson wrote:even my liberal friends are talking about how they'd vote for ron paul

that is extremely frightening how that sneaky fuckin LIBERTARIAN can go on tv talking about how he doesn't care about war and doesn't care about marijuana laws and just wants a free market economy with government in place as a mere gesture (same as today, but more honest and simple). libertarians don't believe in anti-trust laws either.

they wanna privatize and DEREGULATE everything, and let monopolies decide what's moral

libertarians are just republicans in "freedom sheep" clothing.

peace to my brothers and sisters surviving every day DESPITE the capitalist market driven idiocy.

and FUCK insurance companies for making medical decisions that doctors should be making.

i too am an (employed) uninsured, teeth rotting out of my head, ohmygodihopeidon'tgetreallysick american. surviving as best i can.

Shonky wrote:I've never understood why one of the richest, most technologically advanced countries in the world doesn't have a national health care service

Health care isn't free in this country by the way, apart from the tens of billions (might even be £100bn or more) of pounds of tax revenue thrown into it, you also have to pay for dental appointments and (I think) eye tests. And prescriptions of course.

Plus most of the improvements made to the service in the last ten years have been from increased private sector involvement which means that the money is spent more inefficiently and at greater expense.

Really sorry to hear about your problems Thought Bombing, that's really so fucked up, universal health care should be standard in civilised nations. I thought Clinton was supposed to be pushing for this way back, but people that'd been paying into health insurance didn't see why they should pay and poor people shouldn't - which seems to be intensely selfish - can anyone give some more detail about this?

the insurance lobby is POWERFUL and puts a ton of money into campaign coffers. the fact is, american policy is being driven by private interests and the people are being left out entirely. you can vote for whomever you want, but rest assured that they are already beholden to private interests, and those come first. it's a disaster.

the sad fact is that it's not just the poorest of the poor having problems now. insurance premiums have gone up for everyone, and the middle class is staggering under the weight of that as well. most people in this country are one major illness away from complete bankruptcy.

big companies that provide insurance coverage to their workers are hurting now too. a good chunk of big employers like the automobile industry seem to be supporting nationalized health insurance as well, because they are paying out the nose for it too.

what has always killed me (pun intended) is the link between employment and healthcare, as if those who (for whatever reason) are unemployed are undeserving of basic care. but now, even full-time employment guarantees you nothing. i have been in the work force for 17 years and have NEVER had the option option for health insurance. finally i am getting a promotion at my job that gives me benefits, but now the issue is still "can i afford the rates?". i work for a non-profit, and i don't make a shit ton.

sadly, as long as our government operates the way it does now, i can't see nationalized health insurance being any better. and you know if we ever get it, they will just re-privatize it (they privatized social services here in indiana recently...yeah, let's put corporations who only want to make money in charge of "helping" those who have very little...great idea!) and we'll be back to square one.

gah!!!! this whole topic just makes me soooo mad.

sadly, as long as our government operates the way it does now, i can't see nationalized health insurance being any better. and you know if we ever get it, they will just re-privatize it (they privatized social services here in indiana recently...yeah, let's put corporations who only want to make money in charge of "helping" those who have very little...great idea!) and we'll be back to square one.

that would be quite unlikely given the gigantic deficit in the american budget. as long as your government keeps pumping money in defence and keeps cutting taxes, things will only get worse. nationalising the health policy requires a huge amount of money, which would result in a serious increase of your taxes. no politician in his right mind would stand on the barricades for that, certainly not in a populistic democracy (euphemism) like the usa.

i wonder why so little americans emigrate to better places

cuz we only speak english and canada is too cold

The US blatantly has the resources for this without the military escapades and the welfare given to corporations

From http://www.anxietyculture.com/stats.htm

America spends $175 billion per year on corporate welfare. Much of it takes the form of tax breaks:

Corporate tax welfare 1996-2000
(US$ billions)
• Microsoft: 12
• General Electric: 12
• Ford: 9.1
• Worldcom: 5.3
• IBM: 4.7
• General Motors: 3.6
• Enron: 1

Nice to see the needy getting catered for there.

Parson wrote:cuz we only speak english and canada is too cold

I would say try the UK, but it's going to get as bad soonish I reckon. We've already got the main political parties having the same policies pretty much and the private sector now taking charge of many public services.

Solphy wrote:
i wonder why so little americans emigrate to better places

well, the fact that the dollar is sinking and we are all too busy trying to survive has a lot to do with it. hell i just moved to philly 5 years ago and couldn't make it work. had to move back.

'course, dubstep has a lot to do with it for me right now. if people would stop putting out such great music i would be able to save some money. but i just cannot put down the subbass crack. LOL. i blame dubstep.

(un)funnily at lot of the time use in Europe are looking over at you guys saying "what the fuck at you doing!?"

When i found out a Country as powerful as American didn't have free health care I actaully couldnt believe it, its insane.

Joe C wrote:(un)funnily at lot of the time use in Europe are looking over at you guys saying "what the fuck at you doing!?"

When i found out a Country as powerful as American didn't have free health care I actaully couldnt believe it, its insane.

trust me, none of us can believe it either.

and isn't it ironic that our idiotic govt tries to tell other countries how to run a democracy, but we can't manage to rebuild a major city/port or make sure our people are healthy? it's a frackin travesty.

Fuck socialized healthcare.

I really wish private healthcare was an option here in Canada.

The waiting lists and lack of quality here in Canada is retarded. Plus it isn't free by any means. Huge taxes take care of our mediocre healthcare. I'd rather pay and get quality healthcare kthx.

really enjoyed this, his best film to date i reckon.

that bit at the end when there in cuba is really moving

daneford wrote:Fuck socialized healthcare.

I really wish private healthcare was an option here in Canada.

The waiting lists and lack of quality here in Canada is retarded. Plus it isn't free by any means. Huge taxes take care of our mediocre healthcare. I'd rather pay and get quality healthcare kthx.

i can see the dilemma with both private and socialized healthcare, trust me. i dunno that i want this current US govt to be in charge of ANYTHING. they cannot even manage to fix our current infrastructure problems; it's doubtful they could even attempt to create a new infrastructure.

but believe me when i say that paying for private healthcare doesn't guarantee you shit. you can have private insurance and still be turned down for very important healthcare needs just because an insurance company deems it "unnecessary". that is what is getting scary in this country. 43 million people have no insurance, but now even those that are "covered" are finding out that the insurance they pay for guarantees them NOTHING.

the real problem is that insurance companies in the US are making healthcare decisions that are best left to doctors. i read about an insurance company turning down a young child's physical therapy because physical therapy is considered to be something to recover a previous skill, but since the child had not learned to walk yet, they did not consider his/her physical therapy necessary. now isn't that a choice better left to a DOCTOR?

not jumping your case, just pointing out the flaws of insurance here in the states.

I never said the US system was perfect. No one can deny that it needs a reform. But the US does not and should not adopt the socialist healthcare system.

Here are some good ideas for reform:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul339.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul345.html

daneford wrote:I never said the US system was perfect. No one can deny that it needs a reform. But the US does not and should not adopt the socialist healthcare system.

Honestly, I don't get your problem with universal health care. I neither understand why you feel urged to call it socialist and not just social.

If one isn't pleased with the service that caters for all, there usually are more than enough private hospitals where you can pay what you want for what you want. I suppose even in Canada that is the case.

It's no reason to abolish/boycot something as essential as universal healthcare.

word to healthcare.. im a middle class australian i guess.. ive had a healthcare card since i was 16-17 or somethin and ive never had trouble... going to the docs is free, and it was free when i had to go to the hospital for stitches after falling down a steep descent outside the local pub...

australia seems to have it pretty well compared to you lot.. at least in my experiences

I'd rather pay and get quality healthcare kthx.

you've got the choice to don't you?

we do, anyway. i'm getting BUPA next month.

but what's really important is that those who really need care don't get turfed out on their arse for not having enough money to pay for it. the waiting lists might be astronomical, the hospitals might be so dirty that you're more likely to die of something you catch in one than what you went in to be treated for and the nurses might be underpaid but at least it's free

incidentally, if you're really fucking unhealthy do BUPA charge you more? are they going to look at me, suck air through their teeth like a mechanic and go 'it'll cost you mate'?

this is all leading to one place...

GLOBALIZATION


soon every displaced, outsource, unemployed, uninsured, homeless, poverty stricken citizen in the us is going to be praying for globalization... to bring back the jobs, bring back the insurance, bring back the opportunity for equality... wow.

global economic slavery.. or.. whatever you call it. the only answer to the problems facing the world today... besides what bob marley said..

"aint no use.. no body can stop them now.. well it seems like... total reconstruction the only solution." hahaha..


I have gone insane over this.. and every time i am forced to look at the facts.. the facts become a little skewed.. madness.

really if we could get the american population energized enough to be pissed enough to make something happen it doesn't have to be like this

and really with the advent of the internet being our primary media for all things, their television stranglehold on indoctrination could possibly weaken enough for things to change

its possible anyway

i dont see globalization as a bad thing, per say.. only the "view" of globalization being sought after by the global elite. if we all worked together as one world.. there would be no 3rd world.. because every country would be even.. we would be helping the "economy" at the same time that we would be "healing the world" ... it wouldnt matter where a company was based out of, because its all one dollar. there would be tax brakes for a business for opening its doors in an area that needs more commerce, and higher taxes in areas that dont.. just like it is in the usa. except companies increase profit margins dramatically by outsourcing to destitute countries where they can pay well under the standard of living and pocket the rest as net profit.. if it was all an even playing field, if it was the same damn dollar (or pound, euro, whatever) all over.. and a loaf of bread cost the same in afganistan as it does in NYC..


i dont know if that makes total sense to me.. it does, but it may be too far out of reality.. which i find myself far too often.

and yo.. ThoughtBombing.. big up to you sir. it all falls into place.

daneford wrote:I never said the US system was perfect. No one can deny that it needs a reform. But the US does not and should not adopt the socialist healthcare system.

Here are some good ideas for reform:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul339.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul345.html

because it's impossible. after having such a long history of a liberal democracy (liberal as in individualist), such a reform cannot be done. european countries needed about 40 years to finetune a system that still has its flaws, you can't expect the US to implement such a system overnight.

a good start would be the shift from capitalist interests to social interests. for example: in belgium, the prices for medication are a result of negotiations between the pharmaceutical industry and the government. that way you get a price that's based on capitalist interests and social interests. In the US however, the negotiations take place between the different pharmaceutical producers, so you get a price that's entirely based upon capitalist interests, and their goal is to maximize profit