Dubstepforum.com

To be honest, insulting a person's setup is very low of you.

Simulant wrote: I've worked in studios in the past - all of them had monitors and headphones. Every single one.

Yes. And none of us here have a pro studio at our disposal, but small shitty rooms or our bedroom.

Simulant wrote:So sure, if you want to make tunes in your parents house or are too poor or lazy to fix your room up, take the advice of some random bum on the internet.

Classy.

Simulant wrote:But, if you want to be a pro, do as the pro's do. Read and research and find out the correct solution. And almost all professionals use both monitors and headphones, fact.

A word from the pros. The user, Macc, who is also a dnb producer who's got tunes signed to Rephlex (aka Aphex Twin's label), is also a top notch mastering engineer who's worked with Wu-Tang and Babygrande Records. His advice is.. get a good pair of headphones and an amp if you can't afford good monitors and great treatment (in a small room).

Electric_Head wrote:Don't be a dick.
It is what i can afford.

I came here to have a discussion.
Thanks for insulting me.

I seem to manage with my shitty ass end of the pro hadphone market.
At least I'm not using $5 phones and arguing they are best.
I gave an example from my point of view as a basis for discussion.

But whatever, be a dick.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to insult you. But, I am pointing out that your headphones are cheap - that's not an insult, just stating a fact. Still, sorry if I offended you as that wasn't my intention.

I thought people came to a forum like this to learn how to make more pro sounding music, which is why it makes sense to work towards the best solutions. And if people don't care about sounding pro, then why even bother to ask for advice?

Genevieve wrote:A word from the pros. The user, Macc, who is also a dnb producer who's got tunes signed to Rephlex (aka Aphex Twin's label), is also a top notch mastering engineer who's worked with Wu-Tang and Babygrande Records. His advice is.. get a good pair of headphones and an amp if you can't afford good monitors and great treatment (in a small room).

I've read many of Macc's posts and respect his knowledge. I've been reading this forum and others for years now.

I think that in the Funtcase video, he was using just one monitor as he couldn't afford two! But there was no mention of headphones, yet he is a successful bass music producer.

And I've not said don't use headphones once, just that a combination is better. Some people even use two different sets of monitors to get a better idea of what's going on in the low end.

But there are people in this thread that are saying that it's pointless to use monitors if your room isn't perfect. Now as far as I'm aware, there is no such thing as a perfect room! So, I have to say that I cannot agree with this advice.

Simulant wrote:And I've not said don't use headphones once, just that a combination is better. Some people even use two different sets of monitors to get a better idea of what's going on in the low end.

First of all, nobody is denying that a combination is better. The thing you don't seem to grasp is that not everyone is able to afford a decent pair of monitors and basic room treatment. I'd trust a pair of decent cans (€/$150-200) over decent monitors (up to €/$1000) in a average bedroom (read untreated) any day. You see the difference there?

Simulant wrote:Sorry, I wasn't trying to insult you. But, I am pointing out that your headphones are cheap - that's not an insult, just stating a fact. Still, sorry if I offended you as that wasn't my intention.

Cheap is relative, so what the cans in question are in the lower end of the high end, but that doesn't mean they are shit. They are more than capable delivering a good mix, especially in combination with x-reference. I bet you don't have any experience with them and are just assuming they are shit. No wait, perhaps you were taking this info from random bums of the internet?

At the end it boils down to how comfortable you are with your gear, how well you know your gear and last but not least the experience you have. Using pro gear =/= pro mixes.

My headphones are not cheap.
Sorry to say.
They may not be £10000 pair of phones but they are a shit ton better than many phones that cost more.
I've spent my fair share of time trialing different pairs for quality.
The dt990 pro is known for it's quality.

That being said, why would that reflect negativelly on my ability to make pro sounding music?
I understand the fundamentals better than most because I have taken the time to learn.

Having a million dollar studio doesn't mean you will produce pro-sounding music.
That is the beats by dr dre mindset.

My music has got airtime without visiting an me.
I'm not saying I have the best mixdowns but they are loads better than some ppl around these parts who spend loads of cash on their systems.

Money does not equal quality.

If you want to make statements about ppl not caring about their art purely because of the equipmet they use then in many respects you sorely miss the point of music and production in general.

Project EX wrote: First of all, nobody is denying that a combination is better. The thing you don't seem to grasp is that not everyone is able to afford a decent pair of monitors and basic room treatment. I'd trust a pair of decent cans (€/$150-200) over decent monitors (up to €/$1000) in a average bedroom (read untreated) any day. You see the difference there?

Well, if you're that poor then perhaps take on a job? Seriously, it's not hard to save up and invest in your craft!

I'm guessing you didn't even bother to read what I said, hence why you're saying this crap. You don't need to choose between one or the other, so your statement about what you'd prefer is pointless. But seeing as you didn't read what I said - I recommended using both headphones and monitors.

Headphones AND monitors

Project EX wrote:Cheap is relative, so what the cans in question are in the lower end of the high end, but that doesn't mean they are shit. They are more than capable delivering a good mix, especially in combination with x-reference. I bet you don't have any experience with them and are just assuming they are shit. No wait, perhaps you were taking this info from random bums of the internet?

Cheap is cheap, low end means lower quality. And I'm taking it from the low end price tag, not from anyone else. AKGs - £250, Grados - £1000+, these - £120. You see the difference there? Now stop being a nob.

Project EX wrote:At the end it boils down to how comfortable you are with your gear, how well you know your gear and last but not least the experience you have. Using pro gear =/= pro mixes.

But using cheap headphones that don't give you an accurate picture of what's going on makes mixing harder.

Electric_Head wrote:My headphones are not cheap.
Sorry to say.
They may not be £10000 pair of phones but they are a shit ton better than many phones that cost more.
I've spent my fair share of time trialing different pairs for quality.
The dt990 pro is known for it's quality.

That being said, why would that reflect negativelly on my ability to make pro sounding music?
I understand the fundamentals better than most because I have taken the time to learn.

Having a million dollar studio doesn't mean you will produce pro-sounding music.
That is the beats by dr dre mindset.

My music has got airtime without visiting an me.
I'm not saying I have the best mixdowns but they are loads better than some ppl around these parts who spend loads of cash on their systems.

Money does not equal quality.

If you want to make statements about ppl not caring about their art purely because of the equipmet they use then in many respects you sorely miss the point of music and production in general.

FFS seriously fuck off. I never said that so stop being a fucking dick and acknowledge what I actually said. Are you retarded or what? I said that your headphones are on the low end! And that if you care enough about your craft, you'd spend more than the cost of a decent night out on your equipment.

Look at any good mastering engineer - they use top quality gear to get the best mixes. Yes, believe it or not, higher quality gear can give you better mixes, this is well known in the industry. You're full of shit if you say otherwise.

At what point did I suggest that it's not a good idea to know the fundamentals of mixing or music? For fucks sake read what I said. I've met a lot of people over the years in music who really know their shit. None of you even come close! So don't tell me I've missed the point - we're not talking about writing here, we're talking about mixing sub bass on headphones.

I have a job a child and a wife.
Not being able to afford £1000 pair of headphones says fuck all about my love for music or production.
Your statement about spending that on a night out so why not save for better?
I don't waste £120 going out.
I work hard for what I have.
My house currently takes all my money.


I make the best of my situation and achieve very good results.
I have releases and have had my music played on large systems at large festivals and nights out here.
All without the use of major equipment.

So yes, you are correct.
In the perfect situation, the best equipment is ideal.

Not many of us have this luxury.
That does not for a second mean we don't respect or love our craft.
And it certainly doesn't mean that because you feel my phones are cheap that I or anyone else not using thousands worth of equipment are producing sub-par unprofessional music.

Electric_Head wrote:I have a job a child and a wife.
Not being able to afford £1000 pair of headphones says fuck all about my love for music or production.
Your statement about spending that on a night out so why not save for better?
I don't waste £120 going out.
I work hard for what I have.
My house currently takes all my money.


I make the best of my situation and achieve very good results.
I have releases and have had my music played on large systems at large festivals and nights out here.
All without the use of major equipment.

So yes, you are correct.
In the perfect situation, the best equipment is ideal.

Not many of us have this luxury.
That does not for a second mean we don't respect or love our craft.
And it certainly doesn't mean that because you feel my phones are cheap that I or anyone else not using thousands worth of equipment are producing sub-par unprofessional music.

I don't care about your achievements, and no offense but I've never heard of you. All I said was that good equipment gives better results. And you agree, so why the big rant? Clearly you're not a professional, as you have another job. A professional makes music for a living.

Do you think Formula 1 drivers buy their tyres from Kwik Fit?
Do you think Pro Golfers spend £120 on a set of clubs?

A pair of Nike Air trainers can cost £120. It's not a lot of money for most working people.

My apologies if I've mistaken people on a production forum for people who wanted to become professionals. I'm used to doing things properly. Of course if you just want to make music for fun then do what the hell you want. Make music on fucking ipod headphones, it doesn't matter. But please don't try to tell me you'll get pro mixes from sub-standard equipment, it just doesn't work that way. You may get what you consider "acceptable" mixes, but they won't have the clarity and punch that a good pro setup delivers.

And please stop assuming that everyone else is broke! Some of us earn good money and have as much right to make music and get advice as you do.

wow

just wow

I'm not sure what I did here other than try to spark up some conversation and give a differing opinion.

Go be professional, I never told you not to.
Just don't assume that more money means more professional.
I've heard pretty piss poor efforts from some very professional people.

I just don't think you have any time for anyone that doesnt produce in a major studio or has serious equipment.
This entire site is based around the fact that you can produce high quality music from very basic gear.

Also, why assume anyone is broke just because they don't spend all their money on equipment?

Electric_Head wrote:wow

just wow

I'm not sure what I did here other than try to spark up some conversation and give a differing opinion.

Go be professional, I never told you not to.
Just don't assume that more money means more professional.
I've heard pretty piss poor efforts from some very professional people.

I just don't think you have any time for anyone that doesnt produce in a major studio or has serious equipment.
This entire site is based around the fact that you can produce high quality music from very basic gear.

The sites based around Dubstep, please stop making stuff up on the spot.

Anyhow, please try and write an album on some ipod headphones or laptop speakers. Let us all hear your efforts - it will prove your point that you don't need decent equipment for decent mixdowns.

Simulant wrote:

Project EX wrote: First of all, nobody is denying that a combination is better. The thing you don't seem to grasp is that not everyone is able to afford a decent pair of monitors and basic room treatment. I'd trust a pair of decent cans (€/$150-200) over decent monitors (up to €/$1000) in a average bedroom (read untreated) any day. You see the difference there?

Well, if you're that poor then perhaps take on a job? Seriously, it's not hard to save up and invest in your craft!

I'm guessing you didn't even bother to read what I said, hence why you're saying this crap. You don't need to choose between one or the other, so your statement about what you'd prefer is pointless. But seeing as you didn't read what I said - I recommended using both headphones and monitors.

Nowhere in my post I said I was poor, nor does my post reflect my actual setup. I regularly invest in production. I was merely defending a point, so don't lecture me about properly reading. It seems you cannot do it yourself. I suggest you stop insulting people based on random assumptions.

If one can't afford both (see Eletrics post) then you have to choose, get of your millionaire horse and stop assuming everyone is as fortunate as you. I also recommend using both headphones and monitors, I was defending the point that when you're on a tight budget headphones are your best bet.

Simulant wrote:Cheap is cheap, low end means lower quality. And I'm taking it from the low end price tag, not from anyone else. AKGs - £250, Grados - £1000+, these - £120. You see the difference there? Now stop being a nob.

So you are saying that a pair of Beats are better than AKGs . You can't judge quality by purely looking at the price tag.

Anyway that's all I have to add. Having an argument with someone who resorts to insults and name calling is like driving a car without wheels, it won't get you anywhere.

Electric_Head wrote:Also, why assume anyone is broke just because they don't spend all their money on equipment?

Because you think £120 is a lot of money to spend on your craft. And "all of your money", £120? That's a days pay for the average tradesman, i.e carpenter, electrician etc. It's certainly not a lot to invest in something you're serious about.

Imagine a plumber - they have to buy a van, tools, training etc. We're talking £10,000+. It's not an unusual situation, why are you having trouble understanding that?

Project EX wrote:I was defending the point that when you're on a tight budget headphones are your best bet.

Sure, but why assume everyone is on an extremely tight budget? Read my other post above about investing in your trade.

Project EX wrote:So you are saying that a pair of Beats are better than AKGs . You can't judge quality by purely looking at the price tag.

Sorry but you get what you pay for. Beats are shit - but people are just paying for the name there. I wouldn't consider them monitoring headphones tho, would you? So no, I don't think that I am saying that they're better. But those £120 headphones were on the low end - compromises will have been made with regard to build quality and materials. Which was why I mentioned AKGs and Grados.

I understand now.
I am not a professional musician.

I will spend all my money on equipment and call myself professional.
Stupid argument either way, stay hung up on this bs and I'll keep producing.
I don't need your seal of approval and no-one needs mine


At what point did I say £120 was all my money?

Regarding the phones, you seem to be hung up on the price without having any knowledge of the quality.

On a side note.
I live in South Africa.
It costs double what you quoted for the phones here.
Us fucking third world stnuc acting all self righteous n shit.

Hell, a good synth here will cost me R25000. That's about £2500 which for your economy is probably f-all.
But it must just be me trying to be a dick.

I'm not sure about this "The more you spend the better you will get". Music pro gear is just like clothes, you have some brands that are more expensive just because people want the logo. Also once audio gear gets to a set level of quality it become pointless to try and make it any better because we can only hear music to a certen level of quality.

Sometime I feel with some of the top end gear you might pay a few extra G just to get something that's not worth the money, like 5hz lower on the frequency response, to give speakers as an example. Sure the gear is better but is it worth the money for that tiny increase in quality.

Simulant you have to remember that some people do have money to even save or could save so little that it's not economic for them to try and save for the top end stuff. Also I'm sure there must be some youngers on this forum too.When I was 16 and got my first part time job £100 was a lot of money to me.

But I still stand by what I said before I would take a sub over headphones any day.

simulant wrote:
Cheap is cheap, low end means lower quality. And I'm taking it from the low end price tag, not from anyone else. AKGs - £250, Grados - £1000+, these - £120. You see the difference there? Now stop being a nob.

This is one of the most retarded and ignorant statements I've ever read. The beyerdynamics are well known as being some of the best reference headphones (seriously, anyone else hate the term "cans"?) around. Just because you can buy something more expensive does not mean its going to be better for the job at hand, which is mixing music. Grado's are made for listening to music, not producing it. So there not going to offer the same flat response as reference headphones. Same with Dre beats.

To judge something based on its price alone is just ignorant.