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Municiple, not everyone in CFR is really a bad person. I assume that there are people who are members who have no clue how terrible of an organization that it is. It IS, however, a reason to question your motives when you make a political point. It might suck, but guilt by association always does suck.


Jonunderwood, I am glad you are proud to be a socialist. I also feel like I have a responsibility for the weak as well. I don't think that I should be FORCED to take care of the weak though--that's not FREEDOM, that's fascism. The concept of Socialism increases the likelyhood that people won't be responsible for their own actions. Should I be required to pay for cancer when a smoker gets cancer? Should I be required to pay for a liver transplant or something when I drinker gets sick? Absolutely not!


Tempest, you're right... people have NO REASON to not vote. But you shouldn't vote for the lesser of two evils. You should nominate and vote for a good candidate--or run yourself. You have a responsibility to yourself and your descendants to make intelligent choices.


Victor, Jolly... Libertarianism means simply this: you believe in Liberty. How is THAT a pile of pig toss? Believing in Freedom and feeling a responsibility towards yourself and your family makes you stupid? Fucking rediculous, you both are! What part of the constitution do you two not like? Is it the part about the Federal Government not being able to ruin your lives?

Rediculous... you both are.

if the government paid for cancer treatment then they would also adopt a preventative medicine policy with incentives for not smoking, as well as stricter laws for cigarette companies' marketing, etc

what the libertarians think is a good idea is for the market to decide and the market decides that cigarettes make lots of money so fuck people, the market wins again

i really don't like libertarianism

taking power away from government that is at least pretending to be for the people, and then handing it over to giant evil corporations who make no effort to hide the fact that they are extremely evil is (imo) the eviler of two evils

Parson wrote:taking power away from government that is at least pretending to be for the people, and then handing it over to giant evil corporations who make no effort to hide the fact that they are extremely evil is (imo) the eviler of two evils

People have the right to decide for themselves what choices they will make, and they have the misfortune of having to deal with the consequences. It's not the government's job to protect us, believe it or not...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

now to the text of the Preamble to The Constitution of the United States of America...

1. Form a MORE PERFECT UNION
2. Establish Justice
3. Insure Domestic Tranquility
4. Provide for the Common Defence
5. Promote the General Welfare
6. ENSURE THE BLESSINGS OF LIBERTY TO OURSELVES AND OUR *POSTERITY*

I'm sorry, but if the Government wants to do anything MORE than what is listed here, they need to AMEND THE CONSTITUTION! While I certainly agree with Americans disobeying laws that they feel should be changed to bring about social reforms, I am ABSOLUTELY opposed to the Government breaking these rules. Again, I beg anyone to prove the Constitution to be a faulty and outdated document. But to do this, you must somehow explain away the transgressions made by the Federal Government against the STATE RIGHTS expressed in the 10th Amendment.

Simply put, it's the STATES right and responsibility to police themselves. What is good for New York City might not be good for the West Texas Desert. This is why we have SENATORS and we have CONGRESSMEN/WOMEN... because the founders were concerned about too strong a federal government. Please read a history book or at least watch the news from time to time when they are talking about how things are going for Venezuela. Better yet, go and visit there and come back and tell me that you want an Authoritarian government.

Political Parties will be the downfall of this nation, because they protect the interests of a few. What I am advocating here is that we DO actually protect the interests of ALL people by allowing them to make decisions for themselves. The Government has the right to tax ITEMS so long as the tax is the SAME throughout the SEVERAL STATES(meaning all of them!) and that the tax is EQUALLY SPENT among the states... otherwise it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Several tax protesters assert that the Congress has no constitutional power to tax labor or income from labor, citing a variety of court cases. These arguments include claims that the word "income" as used in the Sixteenth Amendment cannot be interpreted as applying to wages; that wages are not income because labor is exchanged for them(hence forcing you to work for free... 13th Amendment BANS this); that taxing wages violates individuals' right to property; and several others.

I personally am practicing what is called TAX AVOIDANCE as we speak. The difference between AVOIDANCE and EVASION is that Avoidance means to use lawful means against a Taxing Regime to pay the least amount of taxes required by law. Evasion, in contrast, means to exert illegal means to not pay taxes.

I personally file an 861 Objection with my taxes EVERY YEAR since I turned 18. Below is section 861 of the TAX CODE... please READ the code, and point out to me where they define INCOME as LABOR...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html ... -000-.html

if you read that brief snippet of the Tax Code, you would see that LABOR is not defined as being taxable in the code. The reason for this is because taxing LABOR is unconstitutional under the 16th Amendment, because it Constitutes being a SLAVE to the Government. They could raise taxes to unmanageable levels and essentially make you work for nothing.

Clearly, I am using the law to my advantage and not BREAKING the law as the IRS would claim. The IRS is an ILLEGAL NON-government agent. The FEDERAL RESERVE is a PRIVATE BANK--not a Government agent...

so in tandem, we're being royally fucked by the system.

If the Libertarians had their way, there would be ONLY apportioned taxes, meaning that everyone pays the same tax rate(i.e. sales taxes on how much MONEY YOU SPEND) which would bust up the loopholes. The Constitution clearly defines taxable income as PROFITS made by corporations... Libertarians are ANTI corporate interests. A Free Market means that the American People decide. You wouldn't have jobs going to India and China, because the PROFITS of those corporations could still be taxed, and they would be taxed at a HIGHER rate than they are today.

Clearly you disagree with me on the Free Market, and I can understand why. You've never SEEN a truly FREE market. Nor have I. But I know for a fact that it'd be better than we have now. Governments could still bust up monopolies, could still tax CORPORATIONS(AND ONLY CORPORATIONS!!!)...

Again... I understand why people have a poor view of FREE MARKETS--but I assure you, there is a MASSIVE misconception of what a free market means.

NoMoreComaStep wrote:

Parson wrote:taking power away from government that is at least pretending to be for the people, and then handing it over to giant evil corporations who make no effort to hide the fact that they are extremely evil is (imo) the eviler of two evils

People have the right to decide for themselves what choices they will make, and they have the misfortune of having to deal with the consequences. It's not the government's job to protect us, believe it or not...

i could sprinkle crack cocaine in the streets and then watch crack usage increase 400% and then blame the people for choosing to do the crack because nobody forced them to do crack

or i could not put crack in everybody's face

we loooove to feel better than people who make worse decisions than us

tempest wrote:My 2 cents...

Please vote you fucking Americans, get rid of this party... even if its only a choice of the lesser of two evils, make a change.. even if you think the whole thing is rigged, you've got nothing to lose...

I honestly think it should be compulsory to vote like here in australia

Have you paid any attention to what the "lesser" has been up to?

"i could sprinkle crack cocaine in the streets and then watch crack usage increase 400% and then blame the people for choosing to do the crack because nobody forced them to do crack

or i could not put crack in everybody's face"

ah! quote of the day!

yup please vote us peeps even if they all sucks get the republicans out

Parson wrote:

NoMoreComaStep wrote:

Parson wrote:taking power away from government that is at least pretending to be for the people, and then handing it over to giant evil corporations who make no effort to hide the fact that they are extremely evil is (imo) the eviler of two evils

People have the right to decide for themselves what choices they will make, and they have the misfortune of having to deal with the consequences. It's not the government's job to protect us, believe it or not...

i could sprinkle crack cocaine in the streets and then watch crack usage increase 400% and then blame the people for choosing to do the crack because nobody forced them to do crack

or i could not put crack in everybody's face

That type of shit didn't happen at the advent of America. What I'm saying, is what good is it to be healthy at the cost of the Government(on my pocket by proxy) if you are a slave and can't choose what to do with that health?
The Libertarian principle is simply that the more we allow the Government into our lives, by providing services and making us dependent on the Government, the less control we have over our own destiny... We let Private bankers control the money and create bubble in commodities, and now people who bought beyond their means are being hurt.

If they'd have saved a little longer and didn't take that "too good to be true" rate, they wouldn't be fucked. In the end, the corporations that got too greedy got fucked. And the Government bailed them out by lowering interest rates and deflating our money again. The only way to start protecting the middle class is to get rid of the Federal Reserve and get rid of the IRS.

If you have 50 % more of your paycheck, you will be more likely to be able to puchase your own insurance, invest how you want, etc... this is good for the economy. Corporate transactions are the only legal taxes--and we break the law every time someone pays Federal Income Tax.

The ONLY reason/way that Congress can collect taxes is to Raise the Army when a war has been declared. States should be sovereign, hence Militias for each state are for protecting states from one another--they aren't supposed to be sent to other states or overseas, unless a nation declares war on Texas... then Texas can send it's militia to defend the border, etc...

Parson wrote:we loooove to feel better than people who make worse decisions than us

When our forefathers came here, they weren't promised anything. All that they knew was that it would be tough, but they'd make it. for over 200 years the Colonies existed pretty much peacefully, all had their own currency, etc... they tar and feathered and beat and kills English tax collectors. Then, one day some of the more intelligent and powerful got together and took the Oath of Freeman.

I could go on and on, but I'm sick and medicated so please excuse me if I made even less sense than normal.

so basically you're a libertarian

got it

maybe im in the wrong thread here.. but im all for globalization.
i see a global currency as the only way to put the world on a level field. how can you outsource to the same country? but you can offer incentives to a company for establishing work in a struggling "neighborhood"..

i can see a single governing body, clear and even, voiced by ELECTED world representatives addressing real world issues.. no ultra poor, no ultra rich, no starving... just a grip of dubstep dj's and a lot of love to spread around.

is that the direction i would like to see it go? yes. [/hippie]

is that the direction "they" are trying to take it????
they want us to fight and kill eachother.. then let us grow our own food in radioactive fallout from the apocalypse while they try and find a way to live on mars. [/sarcastic asshole]

NoMoreComaStep wrote: That type of shit didn't happen at the advent of America.

At the advent of America, people could expect to die before they hit sixty, even if they survived to the age of ten. They could also sort out most problems by sending out loads of people to colonize a bit more frontier.

What I'm saying, is what good is it to be healthy at the cost of the Government(on my pocket by proxy) if you are a slave and can't choose what to do with that health?

So that's 'slave' as in "having a bit less money to spend if you're rich, and not dying when you get ill if you're poor" then? My heart bleeds for Donald Trump when the nasty gubbmint tries to take away one of his yachts.

globalization is probably the worst idea ever

i really don't feel like getting into this kind of discussion today though

Parson wrote:globalization is probably the worst idea ever

i really don't feel like getting into this kind of discussion today though

amen.

thesynthesist wrote:

tempest wrote:My 2 cents...

Please vote you fucking Americans, get rid of this party... even if its only a choice of the lesser of two evils, make a change.. even if you think the whole thing is rigged, you've got nothing to lose...

I honestly think it should be compulsory to vote like here in australia

Have you paid any attention to what the "lesser" has been up to?

Nah mate i'm uneducated when it comes to current politics in America... I'm still working through literature about the history and why it is how it is today (real fucked up)

Slothrop wrote:

NoMoreComaStep wrote: That type of shit didn't happen at the advent of America.

At the advent of America, people could expect to die before they hit sixty, even if they survived to the age of ten. They could also sort out most problems by sending out loads of people to colonize a bit more frontier.

What I'm saying, is what good is it to be healthy at the cost of the Government(on my pocket by proxy) if you are a slave and can't choose what to do with that health?

So that's 'slave' as in "having a bit less money to spend if you're rich, and not dying when you get ill if you're poor" then? My heart bleeds for Donald Trump when the nasty gubbmint tries to take away one of his yachts.

Again, if you have your money then you can decide what to spend that money on... you can save it, you can invest it, you can spend it, you can build something with it, you can start your own business.

You will put that money into the economy. I don't think we should be bailing our corporations. The risk is the risk you decided on. Right now, we have the government determining our level of risk.

Most people polled will tell you they wish they had more money to give to charity. If people had more money, they thereby would give more money to Charity. What the solution is, in my mind, is NOT cut off the people we have already made dependent. That would be cruel and anti-American. I do think that we need to start breeding a generation that go to new types of schools(I'm thinking Tech/Smart Highschools like Bill Gates did in Chicago... 100% graduation. 100% 4.0 GPA... 100% college entry, with inner city youth that barely knew how to read before)

I think privatization could actually help if corporations donated money to build these smart schools for industry specific teaching.

I dunno, I bet if we can all agree on a problem and could put aside our differences and aim ONLY to fix it, for no purpose other than to do humanity that service, I think we could do it. But we'd have to serious restructure the way things are now.