Dubstepforum.com

obIwan wrote: I cheered loudly when I first saw the "planes crash into the buildings" because my background has encouraged me to be highly critical of British and US foreign policy (white, middle class, ex hippy/beatnik parents)

i go to cheer when it is u who perish LOL

Wouldn't go quite as far as you Obi, but I think there's some point to what you say. I don't really go with a lot of this conspiracy theory malarkey, as generally it starts with a partial truth, that's confirmed by a rumour, that's got similarities with another conspiracy theory, that's elaborated by someone of questionable faculties and before you know it...there's your reasoning all shot to shit.

Christian Zionists exist and have some pretty fucked up ideologies.
Islamic extremists exist and have some pretty fucked up ideologies.
Governments, terrorists and businesses use both as an excuse to do whatever the fuck they feel like - all three of these are pretty obvious from the world today.

As far as the freemasons go, I think the majority of this came from Holy Blood, Holy Grail, which has since been proven to be a work of fiction, although people still use it as source material to back up claims, so this is ropey ground to say the least. If you've got something that proves their existence then do show us a link, but this is pretty dodgy ground in my opinion. The Protocols of Zion has also been pretty heavily discredited as a fabricated anti-semite work to fuel political parties of a right-wing disposition.

As regards the 9/11 stuff - David Shayler did a pretty good documentary that scared the shit out of me, but I think that he's more likely to know being ex-MI5 and he doesn't sound like a madman, and his arguments are pretty convincing. There also seems to be some evidence that what happened to the WTC wouldn't have been possible by planes flying into them, but I'm not an engineer so I can't confirm this. Similar claims were made about the explosions on 7/7 - fertilizer bombs used to be made by schoolkids, and although dangerous, personally I think it's unlikely that they could have done that amount of damage to the buses and trains.

I think these "false flag" attacks (if that's what they are) have worked on many occassions before so its still a possibility.

The thing I find most interesting about this whole thing is how people's rejection of the mainstream media's viewpoint, and that of their leaders' views seems to be pushing people more towards these sort of theories, regardless of evidence against them. I get the feeling that conspiracy theories are filling in that gap left by religion in secular society, in much the same way as UFO's have for years before.

obiwan

your theory is flawed because the attacks on the twin towers were not attacks against the american government, but they were attacks against ordinary american civilians. how in any way is this revenge for past US actions? i can't see how you can take an inch of pleasure from so much human suffering and death...

ramadanman wrote:obiwan

your theory is flawed because the attacks on the twin towers were not attacks against the american government, but they were attacks against ordinary american civilians. how in any way is this revenge for past US actions? i can't see how you can take an inch of pleasure from so much human suffering and death...

I think the twin towers were of significance as they were seen as the head of US financial power. The Pentagon - military power and the White House bit was obvious.

I was in a pub speechless watching this and some fucker was jumping up and down screaming with laughter thinking that they got what they deserved, which even with my thoughts on US policy throughout the years seemed pretty disgusting.

ramadanman wrote:obiwan

your theory is flawed because the attacks on the twin towers were not attacks against the american government, but they were attacks against ordinary american civilians. how in any way is this revenge for past US actions? i can't see how you can take an inch of pleasure from so much human suffering and death...

Stop being so self rightious. Ya know you loved as much as he did.

waste quote, how do you know it aint MI5 bruv?

waste quote, how do you know it is?

That is one line of thinking another is that that day was evil because this whole post-millenium agenda has been planned, prophesised and engineered towards since Biblical times, the symbolism of the two towers, that represent Jachin and Boaz, two of the three towers which are symbolic in freemasonry, and which depict the devil that Muslims hurl stones at when they practice Hajj in Mecca, the date of attack which not only has many occult numerological meanings, but is also the number of the emergency services in the states. The rastafarian prediction that the beginning of the end of the world will occur when two sevens clash, thought to be 1977, but is actually the seventh month which in ancient times was September, and boeing seven five seven and seven six seven which literally crashed into the buildings. This points towards the ideology that 9/11 was a media event, a circus for the world to see, that advances the agenda through cause and effect, of the new world order to new levels. Many Americans even believe this, Ordo ab Chao is the method by which a governemnt or entity effectively plays both sides of a chess game for two moves, attacking and defending in order to justify the respnding attack to
the public, pearl harbour may well have been much of the same thing, and the final move in that game resulted in a mushroom cloud.

and anyway, that's a 'waste quote' if ever i read one

There also seems to be some evidence that what happened to the WTC wouldn't have been possible by planes flying into them

aren't all those arguments based on the fact that airplane fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel? which ignores the fact that everything else in the building caught fire too, burning at a much higher temperature than the fuel would have done on its own.

If we assume for a second that it was the towel heads what done it. Then we have to accept that they don't care about wether they're targets are civilian or milatry. They are just as media savey as western politicians. They did it as much for the message it would convay as anything else.
Make it as much as a spectical as possable and you've won half of the battle. Yes you can argue that this was playing into the neo-con hands, but hasn't the way the west has reacted played as much into they're hand( Islamic extreamists) aswell . You can then argue that our reaction played right in to the hands of Alqies, so as to give more proof of western hegemony over the muslim world.

Not eaten any thing today so excuse me if i'm not making any sence.

ramadanman wrote:

You know i was joking

yeh i know mang, but it's just as laid back and as ridiculously hard to offend as i am, i really do draw the line here. 3,000 + deaths or whatever it was is just really really depressing....

@obIwan re: your sig...

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm

Had a look at that opposing digits business. On George Bush reading the little goat story at the school on 9/11

Notice how patriotic this scene is:


1.Notice the preamble to the Constitution (erm...no!)

2.The girl reading is the focus of the class. Arching above her head we see in big block letters 'America' (this is a US school isn't it)

3. Notice America is flanked by two PENTACLES (as opposed to PENTAGRAMS) (also known as stars)

4.The story in the book is called "My pet goat" (proof of Satan's role in the whole thing and it's occult connection)


There we have it, the hidden symbolism (or rather the writers ability to read anything into anything)

People that pick up on connections that aren't there aren't generally experts on occult symbolism - they're called schizophrenics!

5.The statue of Liberty looks on (Also known as Isis or the Illuminated one). http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/statue_of_liberty.html

6.The book of short stories has the word 'America' in the largest font. With all this Patriotism on the morning of September 11th, no wonder the so called "Patriot" Act came out only a few weeks later... The "Patriot Act" that has destroyed anything that was left of the United States Constitution. Under a watchful eye


Is it just me or is this pretty fucking tenuous?

Yeah ramadnman, i thought you didn't like people that take things too seriously. Lighten up man life is a joke.

Shonky wrote: People that pick up on connections that aren't there aren't generally experts on occult symbolism - they're called schizophrenics!

masstronaut wrote:@obIwan re: your sig...

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm

Safe! What are you saying, that I can get an avatar from there?

And just in case you didn't get the message...


Bwahahahahahahahaha

masstronaut wrote:@obIwan re: your sig...

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm

Safe! What are you saying, that I can get an avatar from there?

More proof, look a pyramid