Dubstepforum.com

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Jumpup heads don't think the elitists have any right to hate on their music

while there are two camps with differing opinions, i think the anti-wobble camp have a right to complain about wobble because a) the sound that created the dubstep scene to begin with (2000-2005) wasn't the mid-range wobble sound and b) said mid range wobble sound is now the dominant default/mainstream club sound, rather than being a being a balanced part of a wide, healthy dubstep spectrum.

(i should point out though that in 2010 i mostly think of this battle of being pretty much over and the quest for the incredible sense of musical progress that the wobble formula prevents as being carried on by headz elsewhere).

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Seriously though I don't consider anything pre 2004 dubstep as producers were calling it garage or breakbeat back then...

well thanks for the update: those of us standing in Velvet Rooms circa 2001 listening to Hatcha drop "Red 1" on dubplate don't agree, regardless of what it was or wasn't called ("the FWD sound") at the time.

rob sparx wrote: Saying that you have to get rid of midrange to progress musically is bullshit there are epic harder tunes out there with tons more soul and life to them that some of the boring as fuk IDM cack that gets so much love on here

there are many things that wobble has but soul sure isn't one of them, unless you call "soul" the sound of screaming midranges having an infantile tantrum. you also set up the false supposition that the opposite of wobble is IDM cack: i'm just as interested in IDM cack as I am in brostep. obviously dubstep can be, is and was so many amazing sounds inbetween those two.

and you mention progression but one thing that makes wobble so dull, beyond what it sounds like, is it's predictability: 16 bar halfstep intro, swearing/immature aggressive film sample drop and ... ooh look, large dynamic range change into a mid range modulated "bassline".

wobble fiends can rightly argue that it "goes off" in a club, fair play it does, but lets not talk about progression.

rob sparx wrote:

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Seriously though I don't consider anything pre 2004 dubstep as producers were calling it garage or breakbeat back then...

well thanks for the update: those of us standing in Velvet Rooms circa 2001 listening to Hatcha drop "Red 1" on dubplate don't agree, regardless of what it was or wasn't called ("the FWD sound") at the time.

rob sparx wrote: Saying that you have to get rid of midrange to progress musically is bullshit there are epic harder tunes out there with tons more soul and life to them that some of the boring as fuk IDM cack that gets so much love on here

there are many things that wobble has but soul sure isn't one of them, unless you call "soul" the sound of screaming midranges having an infantile tantrum. you also set up the false supposition that the opposite of wobble is IDM cack: i'm just as interested in IDM cack as I am in brostep. obviously dubstep can be, is and was so many amazing sounds inbetween those two.

and you mention progression but one thing that makes wobble so dull, beyond what it sounds like, is it's predictability: 16 bar halfstep intro, swearing/immature aggressive film sample drop and ... ooh look, large dynamic range change into a mid range modulated "bassline".

wobble fiends can rightly argue that it "goes off" in a club, fair play it does, but lets not talk about progression.

Nah we're not actually disagreeing you are right aside from a few tunes I'm not into the spazzy generic brostep your rightly putting down but there is a lot of music that sits somewhere between the harder side of deep and jumpup which is in one camp or the other depending on ppls opinion. Artists whos music im playing like Chasing Shadows, Distance, Tunnidge, Kryptic Minds etc all use "midrange" sounds including the occasional wobble so I don't buy the all midrange is shit argument at all that so many ppl on this forum bang on about. When ive spoke to other djs about this they dont think all midrange is shit their just very selective with what they play and dont like anything that sounds too stupid which is far from writing off all midrange.

I do play some harder stuff like my new bits, some Bar9 (not the too stupid stuff like Midnight), 16Bit, Numbernin6, Shackles (deffo one to watch out for just had his 3 latest tunes played by Oris Jay at the last DMZ one of which im releasing on SOURG005) and Akira Kiteshi etc but ive yet to play anything by Caspa/Rusko/Excision/Datsik/Borgore/Cookie Monsta/Doctor P/Funtcase etc and I don't know whats going on in ppls heads who can't tell the difference between these producers as they far from all sound the same

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

deamonds wrote:Rob please list some examples of the boring IDM cack you so frequently reference.

maybe it's geiom. gravious, boxcutter, pangaea, burial, shackleton & funckarma.....i love all of them

slothrop wrote:

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Jumpup heads don't think the elitists have any right to hate on their music

while there are two camps with differing opinions, i think the anti-wobble camp have a right to complain about wobble because a) the sound that created the dubstep scene to begin with (2000-2005) wasn't the mid-range wobble sound and b) said mid range wobble sound is now the dominant default/mainstream club sound, rather than being a being a balanced part of a wide, healthy dubstep spectrum.

(i should point out though that in 2010 i mostly think of this battle of being pretty much over and the quest for the incredible sense of musical progress that the wobble formula prevents as being carried on by headz elsewhere).

Yeah.

To be honest, I can't be bothered complaining these days because it's so easy to find music that I do like, and I'd rather do that than sit around here starting beef. But it's kind of understandable that people get pissed off - a lot of people (myself included) found dubstep as a breath of fresh air after getting progressively more pissed off at the state of jungle / dnb, and the fact that what we'd got into as a diverse and exciting scene had mostly turned into linear kill-your-parents aggro for teenage boys. So we thought, hey, here's this great diverse and exciting scene - lets stop making a fuss about dnb and go and listen to that instead, leave straightforward moshy midrange aggro to the people that like it, let them have their scene and we'll get on with our lives somewhere else.

Fastforward a few years... yeah.

I'm not saying it's particularly suprising, and I'm not saying that my tastes are more 'right' than anyone else's, but I can understand why people get wound up about the same thing happening twice running.

Anyway, I'm currently holding out for a revival of 2005 style deep weighty halfstep...

seckle wrote:

slothrop wrote:

blackdown wrote:

rob sparx wrote:Jumpup heads don't think the elitists have any right to hate on their music

while there are two camps with differing opinions, i think the anti-wobble camp have a right to complain about wobble because a) the sound that created the dubstep scene to begin with (2000-2005) wasn't the mid-range wobble sound and b) said mid range wobble sound is now the dominant default/mainstream club sound, rather than being a being a balanced part of a wide, healthy dubstep spectrum.

(i should point out though that in 2010 i mostly think of this battle of being pretty much over and the quest for the incredible sense of musical progress that the wobble formula prevents as being carried on by headz elsewhere).

Yeah.

To be honest, I can't be bothered complaining these days because it's so easy to find music that I do like, and I'd rather do that than sit around here starting beef. But it's kind of understandable that people get pissed off - a lot of people (myself included) found dubstep as a breath of fresh air after getting progressively more pissed off at the state of jungle / dnb, and the fact that what we'd got into as a diverse and exciting scene had mostly turned into linear kill-your-parents aggro for teenage boys. So we thought, hey, here's this great diverse and exciting scene - lets stop making a fuss about dnb and go and listen to that instead, leave straightforward moshy midrange aggro to the people that like it, let them have their scene and we'll get on with our lives somewhere else.

Fastforward a few years... yeah.

I'm not saying it's particularly suprising, and I'm not saying that my tastes are more 'right' than anyone else's, but I can understand why people get wound up about the same thing happening twice running.

Anyway, I'm currently holding out for a revival of 2005 style deep weighty halfstep...

I agree with you on many levels, but its important to add that the generation thats 16-20 right now and fully loving drop centered predictable 140, were in their diapers when jungle was still groundbreaking. this new generation grew up on drum and bass, not jungle. i think like many of us in our late 20's to 30's, we fell for this sound because it was referencing so many elements. i'm not saying that the 16-20 yr people don't have good taste, i'm just saying that their reference point is different, and because drum and bass has been so predictable between 2000-2010, they seek and respond to the predictability to some degree. i think that the older crew that have amen in our bloodstream want fucked up patterns and surprises. a good example of what i'm talking about is a tune like addison groove "footcrab" or any of untold's tune, where there's no way you can see whats coming round the corner.

Southbound hangers wrote:I love deep dubstep, the dubby side of dubstep was what initially attracted me to it back in the day before the term 'brostep' was ever shit out of someones poo hole. I also like the wobblely stuff. Why all the beef.......? Discuss?

What beef? A few blokes arguing on an internet forum is hardly a major crisis If it wasn't that it would be about football, or turbo injection or hedge funds...

I reckon a better question is :Why do people try to make a drama out of little things on internet forums?

And the answer: people like arguing


http://www.myspace.com/southboundhangers

http://www.facebook.com/southboundhangers

http://www.twitter.com/sbhangers

fractal wrote:@ rob, i dont know about where you're at, but people in my neck of the woods get down to stuff like shackleton... there may not be a lot of drops, but long progressions get us excited too! he was here a couple weeks ago and the floor was MOVING!!!! this whole notion, that you cant dance to stuff unless it's a party tune, is silly

rob sparx wrote:sure if Mala or Shackleton had wrote that tune some of you lot would be all over it!

rob sparx wrote: There is a lot of deep stuff I really like but I wont play because the beats aren't dense and funky enough to keep feet moving much more so at a lot of venues in the UK where the audience is younger and less patient than in Europe. I know everyones got different opinions on this but whilst I think a dj can educate their audience to a certain extent I think theres limits to how much you can "educate" your audience before they lose interest and im much more interested in hearing sets with a wide variety of styles than sets where its hard to tell the difference from one tune to the next.

BTW anyone who thinks I can't knock up a decent deep track should check out "Going Back" on my page (http://www.myspace.com/sparx3000) sure if Mala or Shackleton had wrote that tune some of you lot would be all over it!

Corkz wrote:depends man- i listen to wobbly/dirty dubstep cus its exciting and makes me dance like a nutter

kion wrote:...it's usually that the wobble is underpinned by uninspired drums.

kion wrote:There's far too many straight-laced 'rock'-like beats being bashed out along with a particular type of vibeless midrange that's currently saturating the scene. And cue generic bone-cracking snare too! The snare doesn't have to be like that on every track.

kion wrote:

Corkz wrote:depends man- i listen to wobbly/dirty dubstep cus its exciting and makes me dance like a nutter

it ain't that style in itself that's the problem, it's that style when done very badly that's created a problem. I love it too if it's been produced well and not knocked out in 5 minutes.