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Paulie wrote:

Spaceboy wrote:does that matter? No.

Of course it matters, the further behind you start the more you "catch up" and therefore more benefit from prior innovations etc. Growth rates are affected as such.

Spaceboy wrote:There is a big risk in the region, I agree. But, Musharraf is the best thing for the country - there is no viable alternative and he is in agreement with Bush - you can't ask for more.

Unfortunately half the population want him dead. If one of those assassination attempts ever succeeds there will be serious, serious issues to deal with.

ok you win boss.....

i dont want to go into what i've been hearing...but you clearly have alot more salient facts on the region sir.

Very funny, good and thorough retorts. However, you display a very lazy approach to research and a very media led mentality.

1st point: I concede, you are right, India has been sucking up to the US which resulted in India being taken seriously for THE FIRST TIME re the Kashmir face-off. So why do you think US didn't recognise India's position previously Paulie. Maybe because the US used to side with Pakistan? look how they treat Cuba, why don't they like Venezuelan govt? Riddle me that Arsenal boy?

2nd: Soviet Union applied Communism not Socialism. Okay lets go over that again C.o.m.m.u.n.i.s.m not So-shial-iz-um. Got it Paulie? well done! good boy! There are as many different versions of what we are talking about as there are of Capitalism, hence Trotskyist, Leninist-Marxist, Stalinist, Maoist etc in describing different regimes. The US imprisons more people than anywhere else in the world. California alone has the third largest prison complex in the world, after China and Russia. Bizarre! Isn't it??? And what drives the industrial prison complex, the arm's industry and the Police Paulie? oh yeah, your mate Capitalism.

3rd: Alright brainbox Pakistan's govt is not fundamentalist, it is a military junta, which got into power through a military coup. Okay Einstein, Bush admin is not fundamentalist they are just mentalist! No joking, but they did get into govt by avoiding having as many ethnic minorities votes counted as possible, all the while funded by aforementioned oil companies, prison industries, and arms dealers in the form of "lobbyists". Fundamentalism sounds like the cushy option to me!!! The fundamentalist refers to Bush's insane appropriation of Christianity as virtual state religion "God put me in power" "Told me to bomb civilians", and Pakistan's dodgy treatment of women's rights, democracy and the polpulation in general. Why the collabo? cos if your into war, money and power and you hide it behind god all the time, you've got, say FOUR things in common, hence the pally pally, you kiss my ass, I kiss yours.

3rd: Duhhh! we're now controlled by the US, does that mean we're weak and non-influential, have a little think about that one. Arse-fan-all! Dunno is it significant if you get vapourised in a wave of flames ten times hotter than the sun?

4th: True, true. Is a horse rearing up to kick you in the head powerful?

5th: Yeah i'm lazy and ignorant because people who kill dozens, including themselves, in desperation born out of losing family members, land, control of destiny, and national resources are portrayed as demonic monsters. Whereas faceless govts and the corporations that control them that kill more people than the holocaust twice over, including non-combatants, thousands of women, children, the elderly,and the sick all the while poluting the environment with depleted uranium and oil fumes not to mention incarcerating and torturing thousands of people who are not citizens of the country and are often innocent describe themselves as "spreading democracy" and "preserving our freedom" and are echoed by the media and their stooges. Netanyahu said 9/11 is good for Israeli interests, how upset did Bush seem on 9/11? how long did he and his mates stay sad? yes Paulie my feeble minded friend, terrorists are useful for starting wars.
Lazy AND ignorant! Maybe I should start supporting Arsenal after all...

6th: FUNNIEST things you have ever heard? Get out much Paulie? PROVE to me that India is a better ally for the US than Pakistan. In and out of govt, what are you talking about? Okay the fundamentalist thing, the rebels are MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALIST. Pervez Musharaff is a military fundamentalist.

7th: Whoa more hillarity. Hold onto your sides people! I... said... neocon bwahahaha! Okay Wolfowitz, Bolton, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle, Kristol, Look never mind Bush. You are beating off around him anyway. Never mind terminology, Colin Powell opposed Necons, but he still showed off that "We can turn N Korea into a charcoal briquette". he must be a dove like you then Paulie!

8th: yeah cos thinking war boosts economies is just ridiculous! I am such an idiot... Have you even heard of Halliburton and the Carlisle group?
Who said Bush is stupid? He could probably outwit you!

9th: yeah cos the whole tone of my post is pro-war and pro-invading socialist countries. Muppet! There is a thought.. here'e another, If US/ Britain care so much about human rights why don't they help the East Timorese instead of helping poeple to blow them up, why don''t they stop the Burmese? why didn't they stop Chileans? Why did they only stop Hitler at the last opportunity? Why did they boot out the Diego Garcians? Why do they let the Kurds die? Why the Chechnyans? Why support Saudi?
Why support Kuwait? Why support Apartheid South Africa? Why support Idi Amin? Why appease Milosevic? Why support Nigeria against Biafra?
These actions/inactions add up to about 8.65 million deaths as a minimum.
So what other reasons than oil Paulie? You don't have to run out of oil/ oil supplies to want to control other peoples? Just like the bully can have more sweets than you in the playground and still want yours. Your not going to say that Iraq posed a serious threat are you? because if you are it is thou who are the comedian not I.

10th Difficult to deal with? Seems to be going all right to me. Seen Fahrenheit 9/11 with daddy Bush hugging/kissing a multitude of Sheiks?
High oil price? Strain? You really think that isn't in the interest of the ruling elite?

11th Er, how is eliminating market competition anything to do with socialism. You have got your knickers in a twist. I am not taliking about the abolishment of free markets. That would be a socialist move. I am talking about wiping out competition to get a monoploy on everything. Eat your heart out Marx! Not. Right Paulie! yes the Saudis eat out the American Goat's hoof.

12th Did you really? Good move, cos he was full of shit anyway, the philandering, Cuba invading, space race, shoot my dick into the moon goddess, CIA sacrificial lamb, or should I say goat. So don't worry everyone, according to Paulie, fear as a tool for controlling the masses is useless, so don't expect any more media scares, hype and "terrorist attacks" on your city anytime soon!

Paulie, if you hadn't lyao so many times it would be ripe for penetration by Murdoch, Blair et al!!!!

obIwan wrote:Seen Fahrenheit 9/11...?

I think that pretty much says it all.

I don't get it, why does that explain it all? Or anything for that matter apart from disproving your claim that Saudi Arabia and America aren't linked through power.

i dont want to really get involved, been paying attention and all.
but anyone who cites farenheit 9/11 in any way gets discredited.

dont let movies with an agenda influence your opinion.

Marsyas wrote:i dont want to really get involved, been paying attention and all.
but anyone who cites farenheit 9/11 in any way gets discredited.

dont let movies with an agenda influence your opinion.

Why? I know it sounds like I think two wrongs make a right, but the viwpoint of FOX news "Am I biased, your goddamn right I am!" on one extreme and the BBC on the other is still one sided; its just all the way through the extremity spectrum. Therefore if all news is biased, what the hell is wrong with a film with an agenda, better than some wannabe objective crap that does not say anything about anything, like a Guardian journalist. All History, news and information about human events is biased anyway so lets hear some more counterpoints, ie both sides of the story. I know about Moores Democrat history, but to be quite frank, I don't give a shit. I still agree with a lot of what the film hints at.

Anyone see Why We Fight ?


Great movie, that is.

Too much to get into here -- Just want to say, when the new generation Harvard MBAs start running things in China and India, any industrial and agricultural links between the two are going to kill silly Western Economic Hegemony dead.

Why we fight was incredible.

So is century of the self.

F 9/11 isn't perfect. It was a movie i told my parents to watch. At the time he made it, the vitriol or personalism was necessary when we are in a certain social atmosphere when the press was giving bush a mass media handjob.

Agreed that Century of the Self was superb, and should be required viewing for all.

Also agreed that F911 is ridiculously biased (along with Fox news).

Also, if this is supposed to be a rational debate, can we provide relevant links, or some form of substantiation rather than just "duh, you don't agree with me" - this is infantile and adds nothing to the discussion.

Bechtel, etc may make shit loads of money out of the current wars, but they were suppliers to the military before this began. Its tax money that goes to support these costs, and thus they cost the US economy overall regardless of how much profits a few people make from this. More or less the opposite of Reagan's trickle-down economics. Also high oil prices may benefit oil companies but ultimately push up prices for any industry reliant on the fuel - i.e most of them, thus again damaging all but the oil companies

ADRUU wrote: So is century of the self.

Never heard of this before, actually. At first I thought I'd have to hit the torrent circuit, but it's Public Domain....Archive.org to the rescue!

For anyone else interested:
http://www.archive.org/details/AdaCurti ... ftheSelf_0

Also, the Why We Fight DVD is worth getting...not just b/c it's a great movie, but b/c the commentary track w/ the director and Col Wilkenson, is just as poinant and insightful as the movie itself.

Well found RR, hope you find this is as informative as I did. Think I'll bookmark this page, looks like some good stuff on here. Think the guy was also responsible for "The Power of Nightmares" (although that should be viewed a little more analytically to be honest)

archive.org has tons of hidden goodies on it

RickyRicardo wrote:archive.org has tons of hidden goodies on it

Yep, already spent a good hour looking through it - really must get back round to making tunes at some point, but distractions are everywhere.

Israel are scaring the shit out of me at the moment, its all a bit too much of a nightmare scenario

RickyRicardo wrote:Anyone see Why We Fight ?


Great movie, that is.

yes! it's truly terrifying in places isn't it

Why did they only stop Hitler at the last opportunity?

what?

Roosevelt and Chamberlain