Dubstepforum.com

This thread is a response to the discussion in this thread: http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13267
But I didn't want to go too much offtopic, and also, I think this is an important question so that's why I'm starting a new thread about it.

In that thread, one guy says that he doesn't like Hijak. Judging from the responses this was not considered to be an OK thing to say openly. Everybody should obviously love all dubstep artists.

I think the tone in debates about dubstep is waaay to respectful towards the artists - can't you see that making it taboo to say that something is bad stifles the debate and lowers the intellectual level?

I've experienced the same thing when talking with reggae fans, and I've always felt that this is very frustrating and constricting. You can't be all about one love and positivity all of the time, that's very limiting!

If this was an indiepop/britpop/whatever forum and I would say "I fucking hate The Arctic Monkeys!" nobody would raise an eyebrow. I think that is the way it should be - although I realise that this was not an example of raising the intellectual level

Would I respect a book lover who said all books are great? No, I would say that he/she had no taste, or that he/she was too polite or scared of conflicts. No intellectual person should be scared of conflicts. To me, dubstep fans seems to be really smart people (blatant flattery ) So why do dubstep fans seem to think that all dubstep is great? There are good and bad artist in all genres. How could dubstep be an exception?

i hear that. criticism does spur progress, but bitching n backstabbing aint good news. that hijak comment wasnt particularly constructive (tho i do agree hes well over rated), so i can see why it pissed people off...

donruba wrote: So why do dubstep fans seem to think that all dubstep is great? There are good and bad artist in all genres. How could dubstep be an exception?

We don't, and it isn't.

I only started buying dubstep seriously about 18 months ago, but I've probably got less than 50 dubstep records. Every time I go to a store to look for new tunes, I pass over the vast majority.

I find a lot of it uninspiring (especially the slower or very minimal stuff), but the best stuff is incredible, and apart from a select few producers, I'm feelin far more of it these days than grime (which I have bought lots of over the years).

Though I think the difference might be that every artist I've heard so far seems to have *some* tunes I'd consider buying, which hasn't been the case in a lot of other genres I could mention (even Sticky can't make SLK good for example, lol).

The guy said that Hijak is a weak producer and makes shit tunes. He doesn't say he doesn't like Hijak's tunes, he says his tunes are shit. I didn't read the hole post, and I probably won't, but I can see where's this coming from. I don't like the Arctic Monkeys either but I wouldn't say they're shit, specially in a forum I know they write too, what do you expect?

I don't think this particular case is about criticism, I'm sure there's a lot of constructive criticism you can do about Hijak's tunes, but if you do it that way you lose the point.

Now if you want to start a debate about the state of dubstep that's another thing.

David_M wrote:I don't like the Arctic Monkeys either but I wouldn't say they're shit, specially in a forum I know they write too, what do you expect?

I think you nailed part of the answer to my question. Why is everybody so overly diplomatic? Of course it's partly due to the fact that both the regular fans and the superstars of our little genre post here. It's of course very intriguing to rub shoulders with ones idols, but at the same time, as I've already said, I think it also hampers the level of debate.

I guess it's also a different thing if you live in London, then the producers/"stars" are guys you maybe know or at least meet in clubs sometimes, and that probably makes one more careful when it comes to slagging their music on the internet.

For me, living in Sweden, it's of course a different thing. Dubstep artists feels only a bit more real to me than other artists I listen to. I guess I'm kinda used to be able to log on to a forum and say "Beenie Mans new album is really crap, that guy has totally lost it" or something like that. And it doesn't really feels like you can do that here.

Don't get me wrong though, I also love the fact that producers and fans alike post here, it's great! I just wanted to put the spotlight on the flipside of that coin, so to speak.

Go on then- slate someone Mr. You-Can't-Handle-The-Truth

For some reason I'm a lot more diplomatic with dubstep then I am with dnb, for example. There are loads of dubstep tunes that do nothing for me but I figure they do something for other people so it's not anything to worry about. The sound is diverse.

But with dnb I won't shut up about who I hate lol

I'll say that whenever I tune into Hatcha there always seems to be a few tunes that don't do anything for me. Usually sound a bit like coki tunes. Maybe some of them ARE coki tunes lol

nice snide little diss there haha!

yeah it does get a bit gay when it's pure slaggoff styles, but bestr not to draw attension to shit tunes/artists as any publicity is good publicity and all that

Well I don't live in the UK neither and I don't know any people on this forum, but I still don't think it's anything about stars or idols, I wasn't even talking about the relation between artists/fans, but between forum users. If you come rudely dissing a forum member don't expect to be treated politely. I think we're all grown up and should be able to argue and tell each other what we think (also the things you don't like) without starting a fight, it happens all the time in the audio section.

And I don't think the Beenie Man comparison is accurate, dubstep is not as much of a mainstream music (yet) and producers are guys like you and me, not superstars (I hope).

your a twat donruba you suck monkey balls .......there you go bare truths undiluted........ppl dont diss ppl here cause we love the vibe and sound of dub step the best tracks will stand up on there own , comment with your cash when u at the shop

Man.... Insulting dubstep is way uncool.

David_M wrote:I think we're all grown up and should be able to argue and tell each other what we think (also the things you don't like) without starting a fight, it happens all the time in the audio section.

rarely is anything said in the audio forum that isn't just sucking someone off with words. people wanna be too polite, and then shitty tunes get big ups simply because it's halfstep with a sub bass. i think the vast majority of tunes posted in the audio thread are crap. not because there's a crappy producer pushin buttons, but because no one will give real feedback, they'll only talk about the things they do like. i try to add constructive criticism when i do dare to listen to a tune, but i'm careful to not come off like an ass.

however i don't really like to openly diss a track that's been released, because someone obviously saw some great potential in the tracks (although there's a few exceptions, but i'm not going to go into it). i like most of what hijak's done, but i thought both tunes on the last tectonic 10" were pretty much useless, throwaway tracks. i kept it to myself until now though because i know lots of people enjoyed it. both quality producers, but the tunes i can definitely live without.

biggreensleeves wrote:comment with your cash when u at the shop

amen

biggreensleeves wrote:ppl dont diss ppl here cause we love the vibe and sound of dub step the best tracks will stand up on there own

yeah, basically. if a tune is mediocre it wont get spinned as much.

as far as feedback goes, its always better to react positively to a good track than react negatively to a bad one.

its easy to slaggg people in internet. way i see that what you say in forum
you should also be able to say face-to-face.

some people come to shake ur hands in partys and tell how good someone is and then they go to forum and post totally different.. thats not fair.

whole dubstep thing to me is about feelin you belong part of a big or small family.. but family nonetless and thats atleast how we have scene in finland. feels like everyones part of one big movement.

no superstars, no idols just friends n fellow mates who like same music and share same passion for bass music the whole superstar thing is what i hate in drumnbass. we're all equal, we breath same air, drink same water..and share same joint

and when you critise someone, you should be able to explain why.. Someone done lotsa work to put record out, use money, time, energy so
atleast he deserve to know proper critism instead of just "you suck"...

but im sad of all this negative vibes..

donruba wrote:You can't love all dubstep, right?

only everything on dmz, boka, dub police, deep medi, skull disco, tectonic, tempa, hotflush and lots of storming productions, southside dubstars, big apple, dump valve, and planet mu
and some other bits too

Maybe its cos the scene is small right now, not too well established. Feels to me that it needs big-ups much more than slatings.

Product wrote:

biggreensleeves wrote:comment with your cash when u at the shop

amen

Innit

If im not feeling somthing i woulnt feel the need to say it, but thats personal and if someone else did thats cool.

I've posted a few comments saying I like people's tracks or mixes, and that's because I do. I have never heard any dubstep tune that I have really really disliked. If I ever hear a tune or mix on this forum that I don't like and the person who made it asks for some constructive criticism I'll give it to them, but I, like the vast majority of people here (I think), won't just say to someone 'your stuff's shite'

The issue with Smurf in that thread for me was the nature of what he said. Personally I like having producers on this board taking part in discussion giving us fresh news and info etc, it would be a shame for this board to go the way of Dnb discussion boards and generally be derided and ignored by those making the music. Comments like smurfs will only contribute to producers fucking off never to post again, its all well and good having an opinion on something but if you aren't adult enough to be able to express it in a constructive and more considered manner and without a malicious tone then you should keep it to yourself.






Dubstep's fucking shit you muggy stnuc.

I think you are coming to this scene from a different perspective (from me anyway)... talking about big name bands and 'idols'. I see this scene as very grassroots and DIY, very much like the punk scene and the free party scene of old. People are rocking this shit cos they seriously love it, not for the dough or the fame. The thing that makes this scene great (right now) is how together and supportive everyone is even tho we all come from totally different places.... With all the online sites around now you can listen to any tune b4 you buy so you don't have to get it cos everyone is hyping it. Music taste isn't a job, it's taste...I like Hijack, and probably don't like some stuff you like. It's great that new producers are hitting folks up with their tracks, thats how great shit is discovered.... backstabbing turdbags who just piss and moan turn things sour pretty quick... stay positive...