I have been working on a tune lately an its comin along alright in terms of its arrangement and creativity and what not but when i compared my mixdown to say a pro's tune it seemed lacking in low end.
I know of course these proffessionals have their tunes masterered but is that the only problem or is it something I am not doing correctly in the whole mix?
When i turn up my sub too much it starts to destort and i dont think it is anything to do with clashing frequencies in that area as i am high passing my basses at around 100-150hz. I am working in Reason 4.0 btw.
Any help would be appreciated.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:43 pm
by Wrigzilla
First things first it's better to fix things in the mix rather than rely on the mastering engineer to fix it in the mastering stage.
Now if you're getting distortion from turning the sub up I suspect that something might be up with your gain structure (have a read of this thread if you haven't already http://www.dubstepforum.com/this-thread ... 74832.html take head of what macc says). If you're not clipping the faders then I have no idea what's causing the distortion.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
by matb123
Thanks mate!
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:22 pm
by Wrigzilla
No problem mate, let us know if that helps.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:32 pm
by paravrais
Low end is notoriously muddy in Reason (apparently it's better in 5 but I haven't tried that) I'd advise against using the mclass EQ too as it's a piece of alpaca shit. Go for the filters instead or use the vocoders EQ mode.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:56 pm
by zerbaman
Try re-setting everything now and again then re-adjust the levels?
Also, what've you got on your sub's FX slot? I normally just go with some compression, and keep the level around -8db
Just me though...
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:04 am
by matb123
Wrigzilla wrote:No problem mate, let us know if that helps.
Yeah mate, learnt some really vauluable stuff on this thread about gain structuring and so forth, haven't gone through it all yet but defo will have a read of the whole thing so thanks for that
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:08 am
by matb123
paravrais wrote:Low end is notoriously muddy in Reason (apparently it's better in 5 but I haven't tried that) I'd advise against using the mclass EQ too as it's a piece of alpaca shit. Go for the filters instead or use the vocoders EQ mode.
May be a problem right there, haven't really adjusted to the PEQ2 EQ as I found the Mclass more specific. To be honest on my sub I have used a low pass filter and the only bit of eq I have done is a cut around 90hz to let room for my kick, not sure if thats the right thing to do?
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:11 am
by matb123
zerbaman wrote:Try re-setting everything now and again then re-adjust the levels?
Also, what've you got on your sub's FX slot? I normally just go with some compression, and keep the level around -8db
Just me though...
Yeah I will give re-setting the levels a try. As for the Fx on the sub, the only things I have on it are a EQ cut around 90hz and a maximizer. Im not to sure where my sub peaks as its on reason 4.0 and it does not tell you in numbers where your channels are hitting.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:22 am
by serox
For a good sub use a single sine wave with no FX on it at all. Try and get it in key with any synths you have going and remember to keep the sub a few Db lower than your kick!
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:31 am
by benjam
serox wrote:For a good sub use a single sine wave with no FX on it at all. Try and get it in key with any synths you have going and remember to keep the sub a few Db lower than your kick!
This
Also any lower than 20hz is unnessessary in my expirience. Ill have my drums peak at -3 and sub at -6 usually
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:13 am
by Aquathesis
benjaminC wrote:
serox wrote:For a good sub use a single sine wave with no FX on it at all. Try and get it in key with any synths you have going and remember to keep the sub a few Db lower than your kick!
This
Also any lower than 20hz is unnessessary in my expirience. Ill have my drums peak at -3 and sub at -6 usually
-6db = over half your headroom gone before the word go is even uttered? ...-3 + -6 means everytime those hit togehther your like... 3db away from the red, this cant leave you much room for interesting tracks
...Actually, man Macc uses these EXACT numbers in this post, lmfao.
macc wrote:Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.
Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.
Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).
This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:49 am
by benjam
See although I read that thread millions of times before it works for me for whatever reason
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:09 pm
by Tordal
Hey Guys,
got a similar problem with mixing down and adjusting output-levels.
so my question is, how can you lookup the decibel on the master-channel in reason? So far I've seen no device which gives me the opportunity to watch my
"gain-structure", so anyone with an advice?
thx in advance.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:22 pm
by serox
Tordal wrote:Hey Guys,
got a similar problem with mixing down and adjusting output-levels.
so my question is, how can you lookup the decibel on the master-channel in reason? So far I've seen no device which gives me the opportunity to watch my
"gain-structure", so anyone with an advice?
thx in advance.
There is no accurate reader in Reason.
Best thing you can do is just keep the hardware interface and all levels OUT OF THE RED.
If anyone is askign questions like this then the best thing to do is just keep the master dry (mixer to hardware interface in Reason) and keep the levels down. Also keep your sub (sine wave low freqs) BELOW your kick! having your sub too loud with cause loads of issues with everything else. Turn it down!
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:38 pm
by Tordal
thx mate.
in order to avoid clipping and distortion i just turned the volume down.
but everyone's saying "keep ur kick at -6, ur sub 2 dB below" and so on, i just wondered if i can tell within reason at which dB I am.
is a dB-meter really necessary and the same question regarding spectrum analyzer?
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:47 pm
by serox
Tordal wrote:thx mate.
in order to avoid clipping and distortion i just turned the volume down.
but everyone's saying "keep ur kick at -6, ur sub 2 dB below" and so on, i just wondered if i can tell within reason at which dB I am.
is a dB-meter really necessary and the same question regarding spectrum analyzer?
Those are guide lines. Go by what you hear and keep to some general rules. Avoid the red at all costs and keep your sub lower than your kick.
What I try to do is have my kick playing and have my sub turned right down. Then slowly turn it up till the sub makes the mix go muddy and I cannot hear things too well. When I get to this point it means I have gone way too far and then turn the sub down quite a bit:)
Each to their own so its up to you to find a way to do things. Using your ears will get the best results long term imo.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:56 pm
by Ongelegen
Tordal wrote:thx mate.
in order to avoid clipping and distortion i just turned the volume down.
but everyone's saying "keep ur kick at -6, ur sub 2 dB below" and so on, i just wondered if i can tell within reason at which dB I am.
is a dB-meter really necessary and the same question regarding spectrum analyzer?
use the maximizer to see your levels or just get reason 5.
it's also possible to build an analyzer, its not very precise but if you don't have any idea what going on then it could be useful.
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:42 pm
by zerbaman
serox wrote:For a good sub use a single sine wave with no FX on it at all
You should have a compresser on it and have it mono
matb123 wrote:
zerbaman wrote:Try re-setting everything now and again then re-adjust the levels?
Also, what've you got on your sub's FX slot? I normally just go with some compression, and keep the level around -8db
Just me though...
Yeah I will give re-setting the levels a try. As for the Fx on the sub, the only things I have on it are a EQ cut around 90hz and a maximizer. Im not to sure where my sub peaks as its on reason 4.0 and it does not tell you in numbers where your channels are hitting.
Set the eq after the maximizer
Compress/limit the sub
Seeing as you can't see the levels, mute everything apart from the kick and sub. make sure the sub is slightly lower in volume to give the kick the distinguishing punch it needs
Re: Help in the low freq area plzz??
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:55 pm
by Ongelegen
zerbaman wrote:
serox wrote:For a good sub use a single sine wave with no FX on it at all
You should have a compresser on it and have it mono
Should? Nah man, there are no set guidelines. No matter what you do (to an extent obviously) if it sounds good then it's good.
